Did you know companies can vote in Delaware?

**Sally Herships** (0:01)
NPR.
We're entering one of the most contested election seasons ever. Americans are arguing over everything from how you can vote to who can vote. But in Fenwick Island, a tiny town in Delaware, the fight is whether or not you have to be human to vote. And no, we are not talking about AI.

**Ricky Mulvey** (0:24)
That's because in Fenwick Island, companies are allowed to vote. In fact, the ACLU sued Fenwick Island over this, but the case was dismissed. And now, they're appealing to the state Supreme Court.

**Sally Herships** (0:36)
But Fenwick Island's mayor says, Fenwick Island's system works just fine. Thank you very much.

**Natalie Magdeburger** (0:42)
You know, one of the things that was most disturbing to me to hear is that somehow, somebody thought that corporations were taking over Fenwick. And that's just so far from the truth.

**Ricky Mulvey** (0:54)
This is The Indicator from Planet Money. I'm Ricky Mulvey, here with friend of the show, Sally Herships. It's good to have you back, Sally.

**Sally Herships** (1:01)
Hi. Thanks for having me.

**Ricky Mulvey** (1:02)
Today on the show, we look at the fight over voting rights for non-humans.

**Sally Herships** (1:12)
Fenwick Island is the kind of place with a country store that makes its own fudge, like Rum Raisin and Rocky Road. It's a beach town. It's small, roughly one mile from tip to tip. When Natalie Magdeburger joined the town council here in 2021, her mom was mayor. Now, Natalie is mayor, and she's in her fourth term. It's a volunteer gig, so no paycheck.

**Natalie Magdeburger** (1:35)
Love Fenwick Island. Grew up here, so blessed. I'm Natalie Magdeburger, Wayne and Vicki's daughter. You know these folks. Like, I worked at a restaurant, my kids worked at the same restaurant for the children of the people that I worked for.
It's just, it's part of my fabric and my core, and it's a beautiful place to live.

**Ricky Mulvey** (2:00)
Businesses and trusts have been allowed to vote in Fenwick since 2008, and non-humans can also vote in some elections in at least four other Delaware towns. But when the ACLU sued Fenwick in December, the town got a lot of attention and some of it negative.

**Sally Herships** (2:15)
Yeah, I have spent a long time reading the Reddit posts.
In fact, Natalie didn't want to do an interview at first. We exchanged many emails. She wrote that the world is so divisive these days, she was worried that a story on voting in Fenwick wouldn't fairly present the issues. She says there's a lot of inaccurate information out there about her town. What are you concerned that people might think, and what do you want to express about it?

**Natalie Magdeburger** (2:41)
Well, to understand Fenwick, we have to go to our beginnings.

**Ricky Mulvey** (2:46)
Natalie says Fenwick got its start as a vacation town.

**Natalie Magdeburger** (2:49)
There was no sewer, water, there were no roads.

**Ricky Mulvey** (2:53)
It was a seasonal community.

**Natalie Magdeburger** (2:55)
It opened up Memorial Day, it closed down on Labor Day.

**Sally Herships** (2:59)
When the town was incorporated back in 1953, all property owners 21 or older could vote in local elections, including people whose places on Fenwick Island were second homes, vacation spots. Delaware is one of 11 states that allow some kind of non-resident voting.

**Ricky Mulvey** (3:17)
Fast forward to 2008, and Natalie says estate lawyers started telling people to put their houses in trusts to avoid having their kids go through a lengthy court process after they die, and to lower taxes their kids would owe on the property. But when someone puts property into a trust, it's often no longer in their name.

**Natalie Magdeburger** (3:37)
And you had multiple families that were losing votes and wanted to have a say, you know, and they did the artificial entity so that the trusts could vote, and then the business owners asked if they could have a vote, too. And it seemed fair, you know, a lot of our ordinances that we write, you know, what time people go to bed, how bright the lights are, those are gonna affect everyone, businesses as well as residents. And they should have at least an opportunity to vote for who's gonna be on their council and make those decisions. To me, it's the purest form of democracy.

**Sally Herships** (4:13)
Natalie says, everyone who pays taxes, businesses, and people, if you can provide them with a say, you should.

**Ricky Mulvey** (4:20)
No taxation without representation for people or estate planning documents, Sally.

**Sally Herships** (4:25)
That is right. I pay my taxes and I wanna say.
The town has just over 900 registered voters, according to court documents. In Fenwick's most recent election, just over 20% of the votes were cast by non-humans. The, quote, overwhelming majority of the non-human registered voters are trusts, not companies. But Delaware is famous for being business friendly. One of its main businesses is registering LLCs and corporations.