Democracy Doesn’t Defend Itself with Jocelyn Benson

Guy Kawasaki (0:00)

We're reaching back into the Remarkable People Archive to share our conversation with Jocelyn Benson, whose commitment to public service has made her one of the most recognizable election officials in America.

Since we recorded this episode, Jocelyn has continued serving as Michigan Secretary of State, and is now the Democratic candidate for governor. Regardless of where you stand politically, our conversation isn't about campaigns or elections. It's about leadership, resilience, and what it means to serve during moments of extraordinary pressure. We hope you'll enjoy this conversation as much as we did, and maybe come away with a deeper appreciation for the people who choose to step into public service.

Guy Kawasaki (0:43)

I'm Guy Kawasaki. This is the Remarkable People podcast, and we have found another remarkable person for you. Her name is Jocelyn Benson, and she's in the state of Michigan. She's currently the Secretary of State of Michigan, and she's basically a really a recognized expert on election law and voting rights. She has been a steadfast defender of democracy. Oh my God, yes. And lots of awards for doing the work she's done.

She is overseeing an election or elections in Michigan, which is one of the most closely watched states in America. She's a Harvard Law graduate and former Dean. I think she was the youngest female Dean, or maybe the youngest Dean period of a law school. It was Wayne State University Law School. She's basically dedicated her career to fair access to the ballot. And if all of that wasn't good enough, now she's running for the governorship of Michigan. Yeah, so someday, the election is this fall, 2026

Yeah.

Jocelyn Benson (1:57)

Yep, 16 months from now.

Guy Kawasaki (1:59)

Oh, so someday we're going to say we had the governor of Michigan on the Remarkable People podcast. Remember her? Yeah. All righty. So thank you very much for being on our podcast. And I read your book. And this is kind of a weird question, but I just need to verify a fact that I couldn't wrap my mind around.

So you said that in December of 2020, a violent mob showed up at your house to protest your enforcement of voting rights, right? Now, the book says that they showed up at 9 15

And then it further says that the Detroit Police Department showed up at 10 So when I read that, I said, how can the police department take 45 minutes to show up at the house of the secretary of state? Like, what were they doing for 45 minutes? Were they getting doughnuts? Or what's the story there?

Jocelyn Benson (2:59)

Yeah. And to sort of walk it back, at 8 o'clock that night, Michigan State Police had called to notify me. That's how the book starts. And then I talked to our attorney general, Dana Nestle, right after that, about a Facebook post. It was sort of like, we rally tonight outside her home or something like that.

And Dana called and told me about this post. The Michigan State Police had alerted her to it and said, who's it going to be? You think it's going to be you or you think it's going to be me?

So we've gotten narrowed down to two. Dana lives about 20 minutes away from me. So you knew this was going to be happening. And then shortly before 9 o'clock was when we started to hear the sounds and the chants. And I called her and I said, it's me, I'm the one. And I was decorating our Christmas tree at the time. I was holding my four-year-old son, I remember, and we were hanging the decorations. You start to hear these horrible things being set outside our home. They actually live streamed it on Facebook. So there's a video of it as it unfolded.

And so my first thought as a mom is just protect my kid. And so I walked him upstairs, tried to run bath water in his bathroom so that it drowned out the noise of the growing crowd.

And for a good 45 minutes, despite the fact that we live a mile away from a police station, all that stood between my home and that growing crowd was one neighborhood police officer who stood on our doorstep. And we were just trying to get through it. But in the moment, it was really obviously terrifying because of the uncertainty. Was someone going to shoot at our house? Were they going to storm our house? How was this going to end? And so it was a really harrowing evening.

And in the midst of it, after my husband was putting my kid to bed and we were calling 911, we were trying to get help. What also became clear to me, I started my career in Selma, Alabama. And I thought about those folks who stood at the foot of the Edmund Pettus Bridge of March 1965, simply to defend the vote. I thought about the millions of people who had voted in 2022 in Michigan's election. And I realized these folks outside weren't protesting me. They were protesting their voices, the votes of the people of Michigan. And if my job was to defend those voices, I would do it every day of the week and proudly stand there. And so I actually ultimately, though scared, found a sense of boldness in that moment to say, not on my watch, will you take me off my post? And then 45 minutes later, police showed up. They quickly dispersed as soon as law enforcement arrived. And I thought that would be the end of it. I just didn't ever want to talk about it again. But then media picked up on it and it was Facebook. It was live streamed on Facebook. So we had to talk about it. And I put out a statement the next day and all the rest. And it became a defining part of the fight.