Dear Hillstone, We Love & Hate You

**Jordan Okun** (0:05)
Mad Food, I'm Jordan, Max is here. Jumbo Time Wines is the sponsor. Mad Jumbo is the promo code. 20% is the discount. And if you love Mad Food, you'll understand the importance of being in the business of booze, whether it's as a drinker, or if you work at a restaurant without a proper house wine, Jumbo Time Wines has got you covered. They could create kind of a bespoke brand of wine for you, Max.

**Max Shapiro** (0:31)
I was talking to Octavio at Ceviche Project last night, and he was like, maybe I should get a Ceviche Project wine. I'm like, reach out to Jumbo Time.

**Jordan Okun** (0:39)
You crazy?

**Max Shapiro** (0:40)
It'll be your best selling wine. Come on.

**Jordan Okun** (0:42)
Let's go.

**Max Shapiro** (0:43)
Yeah.

**Jordan Okun** (0:45)
What do you think? How would you guide him to create the perfect Jumbo Time wine for a Ceviche Project meal?

**Max Shapiro** (0:52)
Well, the thing is, it's all seafood, right? And for me, I equate seafood with like Muscadet, etc. I don't know if they're making Muscadet or sorry, Malone de Bourgogne in California.

**Jordan Okun** (1:04)
They are. I believe there's some in the blends.

**Max Shapiro** (1:07)
Sorry, Muscadet is a region, but Malone de Bourgogne. But a lot of his stuff has spice as well. So something with maybe like a touch of residual sugar, like some sort of Riesling.

**Jordan Okun** (1:17)
Of course.

**Max Shapiro** (1:18)
Yes, Jordan, of course. That's what I would help guide him with. But mostly on the light, crisp, mineral, acidic route.

**Jordan Okun** (1:27)
All right. California Natural Wines. You need to be in the business of booze with the promo code MADJUMBO for Jumbo Time Wines. Max recently wrote a sub stack Mad Food article on his love and recent disappointments with Hillstone, with all their restaurants. And it got a lot of what, Max?

**Max Shapiro** (1:51)
Engagement.

**Jordan Okun** (1:52)
It got that engagement you so desperately seek.

**Max Shapiro** (1:55)
Yeah.

**Jordan Okun** (1:56)
Isn't that right?

**Max Shapiro** (1:57)
Yeah. Unfortunately, the engagement only comes when I complain.

**Jordan Okun** (2:02)
So maybe there's a lesson to learn in there. There's no engagement on the love letters.

**Max Shapiro** (2:08)
Some of them there is, but people don't really engage with the love. They engage with criticism.

**Jordan Okun** (2:17)
So we wanted to dig a little deeper. Everyone seems to have Hillstone feelings. And Max was in his feelings about some Hillstone points. So let's talk about it. First, Max, you've been at Hillstone so many times. Do you know where the first location of a Hillstone restaurant was erected?

**Max Shapiro** (2:43)
Somewhere in Texas?

**Jordan Okun** (2:44)
No.

**Max Shapiro** (2:45)
Florida?

**Jordan Okun** (2:46)
It's named Houston's. That's in Texas. And the first Hillstone restaurant was a Houston's.

**Max Shapiro** (2:53)
Where?

**Jordan Okun** (2:54)
In... Where was it erected?

**Max Shapiro** (2:58)
Tell me where it was erected.

**Jordan Okun** (3:00)
Nashville, Tennessee.

**Max Shapiro** (3:01)
I had no idea. I wouldn't have been on my bingo card.

**Jordan Okun** (3:05)
1977

**Max Shapiro** (3:07)
Damn.

**Jordan Okun** (3:09)
I believe that was the Carter administration, Max.

**Max Shapiro** (3:12)
Seventies, Carter. Yeah, that tracks.

**Jordan Okun** (3:14)
Do you know how many locations are currently in the country, Max?

**Max Shapiro** (3:19)
Well, some have closed, so I'm going to think 27?

**Jordan Okun** (3:24)
38 Hillstone restaurants, 14 different names.

**Max Shapiro** (3:30)
I think they do that so that they don't have to put calorie count on their menus.

**Jordan Okun** (3:33)
Is that why?

**Max Shapiro** (3:35)
Yeah, because if everything is the same name and you hit over, I think, 28, you have to put the calorie count on the menu.

**Jordan Okun** (3:41)
No one wants to see what's in that spinach artichoke dip, right?

**Max Shapiro** (3:46)
I'm telling you, that spinach artichoke dip, and it's smaller than it used to be. Fifteen, sixteen hundred calories.

**Jordan Okun** (3:54)
Okay, so that's not a bubble mine, sir, right? That is straight up a fact that that is why they use the different names.

**Max Shapiro** (4:01)
Yeah, because if you hit a certain amount of stores, you have to do...

**Jordan Okun** (4:04)
What a loophole!

**Max Shapiro** (4:05)
Yeah.

**Jordan Okun** (4:06)
Right?

**Max Shapiro** (4:07)
Yeah, yeah.

**Jordan Okun** (4:09)
What a loophole. Smart guys, those Hillstone guys.

**Max Shapiro** (4:12)
Sure.

**Jordan Okun** (4:12)
No one called them dumb.

**Max Shapiro** (4:14)
No.

**Jordan Okun** (4:14)
Right?

**Max Shapiro** (4:16)
The bank account don't lie.

**Jordan Okun** (4:17)
No, well, we can't base intelligence on bank accounts, Max.