Day 2 - The Approval Game: Flipping the Script on Judgement| The Game Inside the Games

Michael Gervais (0:00)

Day two from Paris. Today, we're exploring a game inside the games many may not be aware of, winning over the approval of judges.

Welcome back to Paris for the Game Inside the Games, brought to you by Microsoft Co-Pilot.

Nastia Liukin (0:14)

I'm Olympic gold medalist Nastia Liukin.

Michael Gervais (0:16)

And I am Dr. Michael Gervais, sport and performance psychologist, fortunate to work my fourth Olympic Games.

Nastia Liukin (0:22)

And as you know, there is truly nothing like an Olympic Games. And to be able to have the world's best athletes come together every four years is absolutely incredible. But also behind every sports performance, there is often unseen challenges, which we will get into, whether you're having your best or worst performance, also the mental game of winning over the judges.

Michael Gervais (0:45)

This is something that's really unique to your sport. There are plenty of sports that have judges, but your sport is really unique that at some level, you could have a beautiful performance and the outcome lies in the hands of the judges.

Nastia Liukin (0:59)

And not just sometimes, but every single time. You could go out there and have the best routine of your entire life and think that that deserved the best score you've ever gotten, and it doesn't.

And that could be literally down to the point of a judge like somebody else more than you.

Michael Gervais (1:18)

Imagine that. You've worked your entire life, and it comes down to favorability. It comes down to relationship.

Nastia Liukin (1:25)

Absolutely.

Michael Gervais (1:26)

What happens in practice for you?

Nastia Liukin (1:28)

So the most interesting thing is that the judging actually starts before the competition. So these judges that are on the Olympic floor are also showing up to your training.

And for me, I remember talking about this, and someone said, but that's not fair. How are they getting to judge you before the competition? So they sit there and they memorize your routines.

They actually put them down on paper, pen to paper, like they do at a competition. So they know if you make a mistake in the training consistently, without even question, they already almost see it, see that same mistake in the competition, even if you didn't do it. So they're looking for all these mistakes that in training, it's the most important part is to always train as if you're competing and compete as if you're training. So you can't just go out there in training and say, oh, it's just a warm up because the judges are judging you.

Michael Gervais (2:26)

It is aspirationally what we want athletes to do, which is to train as if you're competing. However, in training, it's also the place to fall apart, to try something, to push an edge, to explore a little bit.

Sometimes training is ugly and what you're saying, and that's normal.

Nastia Liukin (2:44)

Absolutely. But at the Olympic Games, so training at home with no cameras, no judges, that can be where you fall apart. But when you show up to the Olympics, when you step foot into the competition, the village, the arena, the training hall, it's game on.

Michael Gervais (3:01)

So it's not really training for you.

Nastia Liukin (3:02)

No, it's not. It's a competition every time that you step onto the floor.

Michael Gervais (3:07)

And so and I just want to reiterate one more time, you're not then training while you're here because you're actually being judged, criticized, critiqued during training.

Nastia Liukin (3:19)

Every single time that you step onto the beam. And I think that's what's it's so mind boggling to even think about because like you said, as an athlete, that's where you mess up. That's where you learn. That's where you get stronger. That's where you, you know, the endurance, if you're not quite feeling great, that's where you can, quote unquote, mess up.

But in gymnastics, the judge has it all written down. I remember my dad specifically telling me as we stepped on to the floor in podium training, right? This is even taking it a step beyond the qualifying round.

Michael Gervais (3:49)

And your dad was your coach?

Nastia Liukin (3:50)

My dad was my coach. He was also an Olympic gold medalist himself in gymnastics. So he'd been there, done that. He knows exactly what the judges are looking for. If you have a mistake that, for instance, we're getting a little technical here, but say there's a skill, it is valued at a certain level. And if you don't hit 180 degrees, like a split, it's devalued. So if you do that one time and that's the one the judges sees, they write it down. So they take note what mistakes to look for in the competition.