Dan Ariely on the Psychology of Stress, Misinformation, and Misbelief

Michael Gervais (0:00)

What makes rational people adopt irrational beliefs? And what can we do to bridge the growing divide in society? Welcome back, or welcome to the Finding Mastery podcast, where we dive into the minds of the world's greatest thinkers and doers. I am your host, Dr. Michael Gervais, by trade and training a high-performance psychologist. And today, I am really excited to welcome Dr. Dan Ariely to the show. Dan is a renowned behavioral economist, Duke University professor and author known for his groundbreaking research on human decision-making, irrationality, and the psychology behind beliefs and behavior. I've admired Dan's work for a long time. And in today's conversation, we dive into his latest book, Misbelief, to explore the psychology of belief systems and the importance of challenging our own assumptions. It may just change how you think about your own beliefs and rationality. So with that, let's dive right into this fascinating conversation with Dan Ariely.

Dan, welcome to the Finding Mastery podcast. I've been following your work for a long time, and I feel like I'm a student of yours. So thank you for, through your writings and the way that you've communicated your science and your art of your science to make it so available. And I've been following for a long time. And I mean, just out of all respect, before we get going, how are you?

Dan Ariely (1:35)

So first of all, thanks for the kind words, and it's a very lovely to be here with you. How am I? It's a very, very tough question.

I feel that the world is in a very, very strange place. And I feel that my little corner is kind of safe and wonderful. I'm writing a second kids book. I'm helping to write a TV show loosely based on my life or for NBC. I have this kind of creative energy. But then I look at the world at large. I'm currently in Israel. You know what's happening in Gaza, what's happening in the north, what's happening with Iran politically.

You know, COVID was a very tough period for me. As you know, people thought I was helping to bring around COVID. So it feels to me that the world is out of whack, and I'm waiting for it to come back to some sensibility. So I have this duality that when I stay in my little corner and I think about my little projects and my research, I'm very happy. When I step up, I feel the world is just really out of whack. I think something very bad happened to the world during COVID, and it has not recovered from that. It's actually getting slightly worse. So that's it.

Michael Gervais (3:13)

Yeah. I love the appreciation of the duality in it, in that you're having a unique experience, and then when you step back, you can see that the world feels a little off access. And so I can relate to that. And so I appreciate the sensitivity. And you kind of slid in there, that at one point during COVID, I mean, hate mail, death threats, and you'll highlight this in your latest book, Misbelief, that you were called out for contributing to the COVID pandemic. Can you just tell or share that story and what that was like, because you said something bad happened to people.

I mean, I can't imagine being at the center of that intensity during the Topsy Turvy nature. Yeah.

Dan Ariely (4:05)

It was really kind of a... The dive was incredible. So here we were, March 2020, and I feel I'm the most useful I could ever be in my professional life. COVID is happening, lots of social science question. The chief of police from some country calls me and says, do we do fines or not? Help me figure out. We think about distant education and distant work and reducing domestic violence, and lots and lots of questions. And I just work on that. And all of a sudden in one day, I learn that I'm really, really hated by a group of people. That is a group of people who think that I've created, I'm a monster and they burn my books and they issue me death threats. And my first instinct is to try and fix that, is to call them and talk to them.

And I spend a month just trying to explain myself failing completely, miserably.

Michael Gervais (5:15)

Oh, their story was already baked. That's right.

Dan Ariely (5:19)

That's right.

Michael Gervais (5:19)

That's right.

Dan Ariely (5:20)

Oh my God.

Michael Gervais (5:21)

Yeah.

Dan Ariely (5:21)

And you know, it's one thing to come to somebody and they say, oh, I believe in X, I believe in Y. But when somebody tells you that they are experts on you, on me, and I say, but no, you know, it's not true. And, but after about a month of failing, I decided to study this phenomenon. It became so important to me. And then I spent the next two years kind of in the dens of misinformation online. And it was very, very tough journey. I think fantastically interesting as well. I think very telling about our time. And this book is really an attempt to understand the psychology. It's about the question of how do we take kind, wonderful, thoughtful, creative people, and what happens to them that they start adopting this alternative narrative and what can we do about it and what it means for society.