Creator of AI: We Have 2 Years Before Everything Changes! These Jobs Won't Exist in 24 Months!

Steven Bartlett (0:00)

You're one of the three godfathers of AI, the most cited scientist on Google Scholar, but I also read that you're an introvert. It begs the question, why have you decided to step out of your introversion?

Yoshua Bengio (0:11)

Because I have something to say. I've become more hopeful that there is a technical solution to build AI that will not harm people and could actually help us. Now, how do we get there? Well, I have to say something important here.

SPEAKER_3 (0:23)

Professor Yoshua Bengio is one of the pioneers of AI, whose groundbreaking research earned him the most prestigious honor in computer science.

SPEAKER_4 (0:31)

He's now sharing the urgent next steps that can determine the future of our world.

Steven Bartlett (0:35)

Is it fair to say that you're one of the reasons that this software exists?

Yoshua Bengio (0:39)

Amongst others, yes.

Steven Bartlett (0:40)

Do you have any regrets?

Yoshua Bengio (0:42)

Yes. I should have seen this coming much earlier, but I didn't pay much attention to the potentially catastrophic risks. But my turning point was when ChatGPT came and also with my grandson. I realized that it wasn't clear if he would have a life 20 years from now, because we're starting to see AI systems that are resisting being shut down. We've seen pretty serious cyber attacks and people becoming emotionally attached to their chatbot with some tragic consequences.

Steven Bartlett (1:09)

Presumably, they're just going to get safer and safer, though.

Yoshua Bengio (1:11)

So the data shows that it's been in the other direction. It's showing bad behavior that goes against our instructions.

Steven Bartlett (1:17)

So, all the existential risks that sit there before you on these cards, is there one that you're most concerned about in the near term?

Yoshua Bengio (1:23)

So there is a risk that doesn't get discussed enough and it could happen pretty quickly. And that is... But let me throw a bit of optimism into all this, because there are things that can be done.

Steven Bartlett (1:34)

So if you could speak to the top 10 CEOs of the biggest AI companies in America, what would you say to them?

Yoshua Bengio (1:39)

So I have several things I would say.

Steven Bartlett (1:44)

Just give me 30 seconds of your time. Two things I wanted to say. The first thing is a huge thank you for listening and tuning in to the show week after week. Means the world to all of us and this really is a dream that we absolutely never had and couldn't have imagined getting to this place. But secondly, it's a dream where we feel like we're only just getting started. And if you enjoy what we do here, please join the 24% of people that listen to this podcast regularly and follow us on this app. Here's a promise I'm going to make to you. I'm going to do everything in my power to make this show as good as I can now and into the future. We're going to deliver the guests that you want me to speak to and we're going to continue to keep doing all of the things you love about this show.

Professor Yoshua Bengio, you're, I hear, one of the three godfathers of AI. I also read that you're one of the most cited scientists in the world on Google Scholar, actually the most cited scientist on Google Scholar, and the first to reach a million citations. But I also read that you're an introvert. And it begs the question why an introvert would be taking a step out into the public eye to have conversations with the masses about their opinions on AI. Why have you decided to step out of your introversion into the public eye?

Yoshua Bengio (3:15)

Because I have to. Because since ChantTPT came out, I realized that we were on a dangerous path and I needed to speak. I needed to raise awareness about what could happen, but also to give hope that there are some paths that we could choose in order to mitigate those catastrophic risks.

Steven Bartlett (3:45)

You spent four decades building AI.

Yoshua Bengio (3:47)

Yes.

Steven Bartlett (3:48)

You said that you started to worry about the dangers after ChantTPT came out in 2023

Yoshua Bengio (3:53)

Yes.

Steven Bartlett (3:54)

What was it about ChantTPT that caused your mind to change or evolve?

Yoshua Bengio (4:00)

Before ChantTPT, most of my colleagues and myself thought it would take many more decades before we would have machines that actually understand language. Alan Turing, founder of the field in 1950, thought that once we have machines that understand language, we might be doomed because they would be as intelligent as us. He wasn't quite right, so we have machines now that understand language, but they lag in other ways, like planning, so they're not, for now, a real threat. But they could in a few years or a decade or two. So it is that realization that we were building something that could become potentially a competitor to humans or that could be giving huge power to whoever controls it and destabilizing our world, threatening our democracy. All of these scenarios suddenly came to me in the early weeks of 2023, and I realized that I had to do something, everything I could about it.