Conquering Fear with Alex Honnold

**Neil deGrasse Tyson** (0:00)
By the time we revisited neuroscience.

**Gary O'Reilly** (0:02)
Yeah.

**Neil deGrasse Tyson** (0:02)
Of fear.

**Chuck Nice** (0:04)
Fear is the mind killer.

**Neil deGrasse Tyson** (0:05)
Yeah, we got the guy who was featured in Free Solo.

**Chuck Nice** (0:08)
Yeah.

**Neil deGrasse Tyson** (0:09)
Not Dying, Ascending That Cliff Face. Yes. Coming up on StarTalk, special edition.
Welcome to StarTalk, your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide. StarTalk begins right now.
This is StarTalk, special edition. Neil deGrasse Tyson, your personal astrophysicist. And when it's special edition, it is Gary O'Reilly. Hey, Neil. Hey, man. Chuck, how are you doing? Professional comedian?

**Chuck Nice** (0:42)
Yes, sir.

**Neil deGrasse Tyson** (0:42)
All right, dude.

**Chuck Nice** (0:43)
Feeling good, man.

**Neil deGrasse Tyson** (0:44)
All right. So, Gary, you cooked these topics up.

**Chuck Nice** (0:47)
Got a good one.

**Neil deGrasse Tyson** (0:48)
I'm impressed every time.

**Chuck Nice** (0:49)
Yeah, man.

**Neil deGrasse Tyson** (0:49)
Well, thank you. Tell us what you brought us.

**Gary O'Reilly** (0:51)
Got to give a shout out to Layne Unsworth over in LA.
All right. So, getting to the top, reaching the summit. They are goals for millions, maybe, if not billions of people daily around the world. Yes.

**Neil deGrasse Tyson** (1:04)
Either literal or figurative summits. Totally, yes.

**Gary O'Reilly** (1:06)
But not all of us can get over our fears to reach it. But then there are some of us who can. So, we got to think about that. Today, we're going to talk about the science of fear. Yes, the science of fear. And how we can change it.

**Neil deGrasse Tyson** (1:19)
The neuroscience of fear.

**Gary O'Reilly** (1:21)
Of course, and change our brains to overcome it. And who better to discuss that with a neuroscientist and a freestyle rock climber.

**Neil deGrasse Tyson** (1:30)
Plus, I want to find out about his podcast. What's it called? Planet Visionaries.

**Gary O'Reilly** (1:33)
Yes, it's with Rolex Perpetual Planet Initiatives.

**Neil deGrasse Tyson** (1:36)
Okay, we'll find out more about that. Yes.

**Gary O'Reilly** (1:38)
So, Neil, please introduce our first guest.

**Neil deGrasse Tyson** (1:41)
I will be delighted to. We have in our midst, sitting right here in my office at the Hayden Planetarium in New York City, we have world-renowned freestyle climber, oh my gosh, Alex, Alex Honnold. Alex, welcome to StarTalk.

**Alex Honnold** (2:00)
Thanks, thanks for having me.

**Neil deGrasse Tyson** (2:01)
I mean, everyone learned about you through the indelible film Free Solo on a climb that you did of El Capitan.

**Chuck Nice** (2:13)
Yes.

**Neil deGrasse Tyson** (2:13)
This is a mountain in Yosemite. Could you just explain what Free Solo means?

**Chuck Nice** (2:19)
So, before you do that, let me just say, because I don't think we gave Alex the proper reverence.
This guy is the best climber in the world that we have sitting here. Like, there is no one better. You understand what I'm saying? Like, he's a rock star. And what I love is he's like, yeah, whatever. You know, I just like to climb stuff.

**Neil deGrasse Tyson** (2:38)
Wait, wait, he's a rock star?

**Chuck Nice** (2:39)
Ah, did you see what I did there?

**Neil deGrasse Tyson** (2:40)
I see what you did there.

**Chuck Nice** (2:42)
You weren't supposed to point it out.

**Neil deGrasse Tyson** (2:46)
So explain what it means.

**Alex Honnold** (2:48)
Yeah, so Free Solo climbing is climbing without a rope or harness, just climb with your hands and feet up a cliff.

**Neil deGrasse Tyson** (2:54)
So no extra tools or?

**Alex Honnold** (2:56)
Yeah, no gear.

**Neil deGrasse Tyson** (2:57)
Clips or hammers or safety net.

**Chuck Nice** (3:01)
Which means if we think things through just a little bit.

**Alex Honnold** (3:05)
Yeah, if you fall, you die.

**Chuck Nice** (3:06)
Thank you, thank you. I didn't want to say it because I didn't want to be macabre.

**Neil deGrasse Tyson** (3:08)
Because if Free Solo equals you fall, you die.

**Alex Honnold** (3:11)
Yeah, basically.

**Chuck Nice** (3:15)
Unless you trip in the first five feet.

**Alex Honnold** (3:17)
Well, that's exactly. Well, I was actually, because if you fall and you don't die, then you were bouldering.
Because that actually is another discipline of climbing is going bouldering, which is what most people do in gyms, which I'm actually going to do in the gym here in New York as soon as we're done chatting. Go to the gym and go bouldering to train. And so that's when you climb without a rope and everything as well, but you're climbing 10 or 15 feet, you fall onto pads, it's all safe. But basically, if you go much beyond that and you're looking at serious consequences.