Combining Machine Learning and Human Intelligence at Unbabel

**Conor Bronsdon** (0:00)
Hey, everyone, this is Conor Bronsdon, executive producer of the Dev Interrupted Podcast and occasional guest host. With the holidays fast approaching, the team here at LinearB will be going on a short break to unwind and spend some time with our families.
Coinciding with that break will be the end of season one of the podcast and the beginning of season two.
You'll hear from us one more time before the year is over, on Wednesday, December 29th. That episode will mark the end of season one of the pod and we'll return to our normal schedule on January 8th, 2022 with the start of season two. We have some incredible guests lined up for season two and I can't wait to introduce you to them all. From our family here at LinearB to yours, happy holidays. And now let's get on with the episode. This episode is sponsored by LinearB. Accelerate your development pipeline with data-driven engineering metrics, continuous improvement automation and project visibility while cutting your software development cycle time in half. Sign up for your free demo at LinearB and mention the Dev Interrupted Podcast discount for a one-month free when you sign up for an annual Pro membership.

**Dan Lines** (1:02)
Welcome to Dev Interrupted. I'm your host Dan Lines, and today I'm joined by Jonathan Sowler, the VP of Engineering at Unbabel. Quick reminder for our listeners, if you haven't already rated and reviewed the show on your podcasting app of choice, particularly Apple Podcast, please do so. Reviews are a crucial way that our show gets discovered. Jonathan, let's start with giving our audience the opportunity to get to know you a little bit better before we jump into your role at Unbabel.
I understand you have a degree from Oxford in philosophy, psychology, neurophysiology. With that type of interesting background, how did you get into your path of engineering leadership?

**Jonathan Sowler** (1:47)
I went to university in the days before machine learning degrees or there was no machine learning. So I actually went to university to study mathematics and was kind of interested in the brain and connectionist theory and there was nowhere to go and study.
I didn't know at the time there was some places in California and Canada, obviously in Toronto, but there wasn't much on offer. And I changed courses halfway through and came out with a degree in neurophysiology, philosophy, which was absorbing and psychology.

**Dan Lines** (2:19)
That's really interesting. What effect has that had on you?

**Jonathan Sowler** (2:24)
Good question. I think when machine learning starts to be a big thing, it certainly made it attractive. It was like, yes, that's what I was trying to study 10, 20 years ago.
And now it's here. Now finally, I can remember when I was studying, I was very interested in what even then was called artificial intelligence. And I remember a quote from a French philosopher that it was needed intelligence and lacked the artifice.
And I just thought, well, okay, maybe now's not the time. So after 20 years, some of the skills that I developed became marketable and then companies started working the area.

**Dan Lines** (3:00)
Oh, for sure. I mean, if you're in machine learning, AI, anything like that, those are the sexiest buzzwords in the engineering community for a little bit now, right?

**Jonathan Sowler** (3:09)
Yes, for the last 15 years.

**Dan Lines** (3:13)
Now also in your background, I see you've been a CTO, obviously, you're the VP of Engineering at Unbabel, incredible company. We're going to get into that. Was there any inflection point in your engineering career that kind of launched you into being a leader?

**Jonathan Sowler** (3:32)
It was a little more than that. I was working as a…
I started as an engineer, worked as a developer. And then back in the 90s, I don't remember, back in the 90s, the internet came along. And I started a business, started a business with some acquaintances. The really started with a business plan that was as simple as the internet will be big. People will use the internet to do real business, so they need security. So from that was born a little company that made some good decisions around working with Java and we started with cryptographic protocols. And I looked at the cryptographic algorithms and then built protocols and then started to work with non-repudiation and some of the different identities, some of the building blocks that you need to build meaningful secure systems.
And it was through that that I was part of the leadership team of that business and started to enjoy working with engineers, understanding how you build products. And it was the early days and product management didn't exist as a thing quite the way it is today. And that just, and that business was sold some microsystems in 2000 And that really launched me into a career in technology and technology leadership and working in this space.