Climate villains, TikTokers, grandkids, and the messages that break through 📢 with Jamie Henn

Bill McKibben (0:02)

Welcome, fellow Earthlings. Welcome to What If We Get It Right, a show about what we need to do to address the climate crisis and how to make those things happen.

This is season five, the 2026 midterm election edition. And I give you our host, Dr. Ayana Elizabeth Johnson.

Ayana Elizabeth Johnson (0:25)

I give you my co-host, Bill McKibben.

Bill McKibben (0:28)

Your sidekick.

Ayana Elizabeth Johnson (0:29)

Ah, this is like the buddy comedy I didn't know that I needed.

Bill McKibben (0:32)

Are you old enough to remember Johnny Carson and Ed McMahon?

Ayana Elizabeth Johnson (0:36)

No.

Bill McKibben (0:37)

Sitting by his side?

Ayana Elizabeth Johnson (0:38)

But wasn't it Johnny Carson who helped to proliferate the idea of, now we're cooking with gas?

Bill McKibben (0:46)

It could have been.

Ayana Elizabeth Johnson (0:47)

Some late night host was paid by the fossil fuel industry to popularize that slogan that we're all now using and pretending induction stoves aren't purely magical and so much better. So, Bill, we've basically made it halfway through our season, which is exciting, but also I never wanted to end.

It's been such a delightful collaboration. And one of the interviews that we recorded together very early was with Jamie Henn. We saved it to air a little bit later, so we thought it would make more sense at this point in the arc of the season. Bill, you have worked with Jamie very closely for many years, so maybe you can introduce him.

Bill McKibben (1:26)

Jamie Henn is on the very, very, very short list of my favorite people on Planet Earth. I knew him first when he was a student at Middlebury College. I helped advise his senior thesis.

And in return, he became one of the key organizers at 350.org. When 350.org was very young in 2009, it had more people following it on Facebook, which was still pretty new, than all the other environmental organizations in America combined.

Ayana Elizabeth Johnson (2:02)

Wow.

Bill McKibben (2:03)

Just because Jamie and his colleagues like John Warnow figured out how to get online and going.

Ayana Elizabeth Johnson (2:09)

So he's worked at a few different organizations, but now he's leading something called Fossil Free Media. And they're even calling out CEOs of fossil fuel companies by name to mobilize voters against this common enemy to our future.

Bill McKibben (2:26)

Yes. He has figured out year after year after year after year, new ways to engage people and to get politicians on the right page. And he's, if the climate movement has a kind of behind the scenes flywheel, something that keeps it spinning year after year, I think Jamie might be it.

Ayana Elizabeth Johnson (2:48)

And Bill, something that came up in a previous episode was this idea of needing a mascot for the clean energy industry. And we've gotten so many incredible suggestions from our listeners what that should be. And I cannot wait to pitch them to you and see which ones you like. We're going to do that at the end of the episode. So everyone stick around. And here is our conversation with Jamie Henn.

Of course, Jamie, you know better than anyone that the climate talking points and facts are not enough, that a lot of that information just goes in one ear and out the other. But another thing you know very well is our friend Bill. So I'm curious, when we think about the power of storytelling, what is the Bill McKibben story? Can you give us a 30 second version?

Jamie Henn (3:38)

Oh, my word.

Ayana Elizabeth Johnson (3:39)

I'm timing you.

Jamie Henn (3:40)

It would be an honor. I first met Bill when I was a student at Middlebury College. At the time, we were getting engaged in activism on campus, and we heard rumor of this famous writer who lived up in the hills, who had written the first book for a public audience about climate change, and had done some activism over the years, but was interested in doing more, and connecting with young people on campus.

We got to meet up as the kids who knew something about putting a website together and how to throw a protest, or we thought we did, we didn't know that much. Bill was incredible at reaching out to us and saying, hey, what if you, instead of just organizing on campus, what about doing a big day of action across the state of Vermont? And then one thing led to another, and that led to a big march across Vermont, and then a national day of action, and then a global day of action that became 350, and then the last 20 years of my life, being a full-time climate organizer and activist. So I think that working with Bill has been the privilege and pleasure of a lifetime, as we've gotten to work away at this issue over the years. And many adventures in between.