Christian Slavery with Candida Moss

SPEAKER_1 (0:01)

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Candida Moss (0:31)

I don't think anyone is well served by pretending that Christianity isn't implicated in the history of slavery. There are texts within the New Testament that can be used, and hopefully should be used, for liberatory goals.

But the fact of the matter is, if you read the Bible as happened during abolitionist debates, the pro-slavery group have it. And you have to work really, really hard and ignore a lot of evidence to say that it's an anti-slavery text.

Dan McClellan (1:02)

Hey, everybody. I'm Dan McClellan.

Dan Beecher (1:09)

And I'm Dan Beecher.

Dan McClellan (1:10)

And you are listening to the Data Over Dogma podcast, where we increase public access to the academic study of the Bible and religion and combat the spread of misinformation. How are things, Dan Beecher?

Dan Beecher (1:23)

Oh, man, things are great.

There's fun things afoot. I'm actually really looking forward to our interview today. We've got some interesting stuff to talk about today.

Dan McClellan (1:34)

Me too. And you just returned from your annual pilgrimage. I don't know if you do it every year, but you went to Mardi Gras.

Dan Beecher (1:44)

This is actually my first time.

Dan McClellan (1:47)

First time?

Dan Beecher (1:48)

I went to Mardi Gras, so yeah, it was a lot of fun.

Dan McClellan (1:51)

And so what are you giving up for Lent?

Dan Beecher (1:54)

Mardi Gras.

Dan McClellan (1:55)

Mardi Gras.

Dan Beecher (1:55)

I gave up Mardi Gras for Lent.

Dan McClellan (1:57)

That's wise.

Dan Beecher (1:58)

It's fine. It went away anyway. There was no more to be had, so it was fine.

All right. Well, without me, let's introduce our awesome guest.

Dan McClellan (2:07)

Yes. Today we have Dr. Candida Moss with us. Welcome to the show, Candida. And Dr. Moss, or Professor Moss, is the Cadbury Professor of Theology at Birmingham University. Not Birmingham, but Birmingham.

And she's also the CBS Papal News correspondent, who every time the pope does something globally noteworthy, she's called out to go comment on it. Welcome to the show, Candida. We're very happy to have you here.

Candida Moss (2:39)

Thanks so much for having me.

Dan McClellan (2:42)

And I remember the first time we met, and I think you do too, was when you came out to Utah to come speak at a little conference that was being held at BYU with some folks like James Kugel and Pete Enns and some others. And I picked you up from the airport and I thought it would be funny if I held a sign with your name on it. So I printed one out in Greek.

And the first thing you did, and you thought it was hilarious and you had to get a picture, but then you immediately pointed out that I had the accent wrong, which is what I was terrified was going to happen. And I was like, I got to hurry and I couldn't find a video on YouTube of somebody pronouncing your name that that I could be confident was correct. So I accentuated the word as the name as if it was pronounced Candida, which is how I had always heard it. So I still feel bad about that.

Dan Beecher (3:38)

But nevertheless, hashtag nerd jokes. Well done.

Candida Moss (3:43)

I feel bad about even bringing it up like mispronounces my name and I didn't even really notice. So I can't believe I did that.

SPEAKER_6 (3:51)

That was nerdy. I mean, yeah, no, no, no.

Dan McClellan (3:56)

And you have a book that's coming out on March 26 And it is entitled God's Ghostwriters, Enslaved Christians and the Making of the Bible. And we're here to talk about this book. Dan and I have had copies for a bit and have been hopefully reading through them.

We're very excited.

Dan Beecher (4:19)

You don't have to be hopeful if you know that you've actually read it, Dan.

Dan McClellan (4:23)

Well, I'm not talking about just me, but I know I'm throwing me under a roof.

Yeah. Well, you've been busy.

Dan Beecher (4:30)

No, I've been reading the book. It's actually a really fun read.

So frankly, I went into it with a misapprehension because I went into the book believing that this was a book about sort of this thing that I've heard plenty about, which is the enslavement of Christians by, say, the Romans. You hear a lot about sort of historical enslavement of Christians by other groups. And what I had not anticipated was that that's not really what this book is about.