Christian Nationalism Ain't Christian: With Andrew Whitehead

SPEAKER_1 (0:01)

Are you interested in the parts of history that remain a mystery? Do you want to learn more about the historical myths and misconceptions used to prop up belief today?

I'm Nathaniel Lloyd. In my podcast Historical Blindness, I delve into all of these topics, sharing puzzling tales from the past, and examining hoaxes, conspiracy theories, and misremembered events that provide insight into modern politics and religion. New episodes every two weeks find historical blindness on most podcast players and platforms.

Andrew Whitehead (0:37)

Well, I think this is where, you know, our work around Christian nationalism actually is really helpful because I think really Trump just kind of pulled back the curtains of something that was always true, that it was about power. It was about getting the person in power who will give us access to power to make, you know, this world look like we hope it will, you know, as we interpret the Bible or think about, you know, the ways that it should look. And so I think that's the difference.

Daniel McClellan (1:09)

Hey, everybody. I'm Dan McClellan.

Daniel Beecher (1:11)

And I'm Dan Beecher.

Daniel McClellan (1:12)

And you are listening to the Data Over Dogma podcast, where we seek to increase the public's access to the academic study of the Bible and religion and combat the spread of misinformation about the same. How are things today, Dan?

Daniel Beecher (1:27)

Things are great. I am looking forward to today's show. We've got an awesome guest. We've got a topic that will anger a whole group of people. So, you know, what could be better?

Daniel McClellan (1:40)

Want to make the people happy. Give them what they want. That's right. For a lot of people is anger right now.

Daniel Beecher (1:46)

So why don't you introduce our guest?

Daniel McClellan (1:48)

All right. Today we're going to be talking with Andrew Whitehead, who is a professor of sociology at Indiana University, Purdue University, Indianapolis. Excuse me. So IUPUI.

Just so we're all clear on that. That's IUPI if you're feeling fun. Where he co-directs the Association of Religion Data Archives in the Center for the Study of Religion and American Culture.

Thank you so much for being here with us today, Andrew, and welcome to the Data Over Dogma podcast.

Andrew Whitehead (2:19)

Hey, thanks for having me. I'm really glad to be here with you guys.

Daniel Beecher (2:22)

Yeah. So the first question, I think, is the obvious question, which is, why do you hate Christians?

Andrew Whitehead (2:29)

That's usually what some folks lead with, yes, when they're talking about Christian nationalism.

There's, you know, difficulty disentangling or seeing difference between the two. So yeah, I have had that question before, for sure.

Daniel Beecher (2:40)

Have you really? Okay. Well, I don't think that you actually do hate Christians.

But yes, your specialty is in Christian nationalism. Will you give us a little bit of background on, like, how you got into studying that, what your background in it is and what angle you're coming at it from?

Andrew Whitehead (3:01)

Yeah, definitely. So I'm a social scientist, so a sociologist, and I specialize in analyzing large survey data of the American public, so more quantitative.

And so I got into that because I was just fascinated by religion, like you both, and how American culture both shapes religion or Christianity, right, since that's the majority religion here, but then how Christianity has also shaped our culture and history. And so that's kind of professionally where I come at this. And Christian nationalism was something that, you know, I was interested in now a little over a decade ago when I started studying this, because it really kind of looks at the overlap between both politics and religion, right? And we know a lot about how politics shapes the way Americans think, and also how their personal religious, you know, piety shapes the way they think. And Christian nationalism kind of looks at the overlap of both. And what we found is that it really does explain something above and beyond, like if they're, you know, Republican or Democrat, or if they pray a lot, or they don't affiliate with a religious tradition.

So professionally, that's where I come from it at. But then also personally, I grew up in northern Indiana, really religious area, really religious town and community. And so, you know, growing up, it was kind of taken for granted that the US is a Christian nation, and that to be a good American is to be Christian. And to be a good Christian, you know, ideally, you'd be American. And so there was really little, you know, I know exactly. Well, he looked like us, for sure.