Chris Voss on Tactical Empathy: The Skill That Changes Every Conversation

**Chris Voss** (0:00)
The best things in your life happened to you as a result of something negative. You realize the door got slammed shut, and you gotta look for another door. So then I found myself pursuing hostage negotiation.

**Moshe Popack** (0:09)
Welcome to Common Denominator. I'm your host, Moshe Popack. Today's guest is someone who has negotiated in rooms where lives were literally on the line. Former FBI lead hostage negotiator, CEO of the Black Swan Group, and bestselling author of Never Split the Difference. And the full fee agent, Chris Voss. Chris didn't just study negotiation. He lived it. From international kidnappings to high stakes corporate deals. And today we're breaking down what most people get wrong about communication. We talk about why clarity can feel like violence and how to deliver it with kindness. If you've ever wanted better results in business, stronger relationships, or more confidence in difficult conversations, this episode is for you.

**Chris Voss** (1:00)
You guys are going to be at the table again in the future, and everybody's going to remember how it went last time.

**Moshe Popack** (1:05)
Is there fear going through you if you don't get the result, right? The result is what matters, saving the lives of people.

**Chris Voss** (1:12)
Hostage negotiators are successful slightly more than 90% of the time. Once you start getting close to double digits, things are going to go bad just because that's the universe. And then when that happens, how do you deal with post-traumatic stress growth or post-traumatic stress defeat? The difference between those two really is a choice.

**Moshe Popack** (1:34)
Hi, Chris. Welcome to Common Denominator.

**Chris Voss** (1:37)
Happy to be here. Thank you.

**Moshe Popack** (1:39)
It's really an honor and a pleasure, I gotta say that first, to have you on the show. Because I think about the things that people focus on, because I see things as results, right? Yourself as handling negotiations for a very long time on the highest levels. What is it as humans that we have wrong as far as our perception? Where can we change that? Where's the X factor that we could change as far as getting better results on a mass level?

**Chris Voss** (2:08)
Probably, let me see if I can sort this out, three steps. First of all, you gotta hear the other side out first. And that has to do with precision listening. You gotta listen to what was actually said. A few people are precision communicators, so most of the time people are afraid to say, I didn't understand or I was lost. But they gotta make sure that in their head they heard what was being said. I was just on a phone call with the guy that's running my company. And he knew what he was talking about, but there were several things. He changed in a pronoun. He used the pronoun her twice, referring to two different people each time. Now, he knew who he was referring to. And so in your head, there's pretty good chance your communication is not that clear. And so the person who's talking to you, they're doing their level best, but there's going to be some clarity issues. You got to clear up. You got to make sure that you're heard. You can't be afraid. The labels and the mirrors are really about clarifying information. If you're not sure what somebody just said, you use a mirror to get clarification. And people are scared to seek clarification often. I think principally because they're going to make they're afraid it's going to make them look like they weren't listening, where the other side, the impact is going to be they're deeply gratified that you're listening really closely and you're listening to understand. So you want to do your best to hear the other side out, but understand they're probably communicating and precisely and clear it up. And then when you communicate, it communicate clearly, but gently. A lot of times I've heard the phrase clarity is violence. It's because when people are being clear, they could be delivering it in such a way that it just feels like blunt, forced trauma. Like the other side craves clarity, but deliver it gently, and you need a ton of voice, smile when you talk, if you can. Your mindset when you're delivering clarity should be kindness, nurturing, being nice. Whatever works for you to soften your voice, you could be more clear, more direct. And people's experience with being direct having it used on them felt like a brick in the face. So typically very cautious of hurting the other side with the words that are too blocked. And those two issues, an awful lot of be cleared up. You know, precision listening, precision communication. You know that what's the myth? The myth about communication is that it took place.