Carl Kawaja - Wisdom from Decades of Investing

**Patrick O'Shaughnessy** (0:00)
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Hello and welcome everyone. I'm Patrick O'Shaughnessy and this is Invest Like the Best. This show is an open-ended exploration of markets, ideas, stories and strategies that will help you better invest both your time and your money. Invest Like the Best is part of the Colossus family of podcasts and you can access all our podcasts, including edited transcripts, show notes and other resources to keep learning at joincolossus.com.

**SPEAKER_2** (2:21)
Patrick O'Shaughnessy is the CEO of O'Shaughnessy Asset Management. All opinions expressed by Patrick and podcast guests are solely their own opinions and do not reflect the opinion of O'Shaughnessy Asset Management. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a basis for investment decisions.
Clients of O'Shaughnessy Asset Management may maintain positions in the securities discussed in this podcast.

**Patrick O'Shaughnessy** (2:46)
Today's conversation is one of my all-time favorites with someone I've come to respect deeply in the field of investing. My guest is Carl Kawaja, who has served as a portfolio manager at Capital Group for decades. Capital Group is among the most respected shareholders in the world with over $2 trillion of assets and listening to Carl, you'll hear why.
In our conversation, we cover Carl's criteria for building conviction around long-term holdings, why he views uncertainty and ambiguity as healthy, and why tolerating failure is key to a great investing career. Throughout our discussion, Carl connects his lessons through a variety of direct experiences, personal analogies, and broader frameworks. I love his ability to talk in the weeds about his investments in Vale and TSMC, and then quickly shift to his broader thematic views like The Empire Strikes Back. I hope you enjoy this great conversation with Carl Kawaja.
So Carl, I think an interesting place to start is around two of the companies that you've owned for the longest. I think you know which two I'm talking about. It allows us to talk about an interesting contrast between them, because I think their performance has been similar, but they're drastically different businesses, and I want to know what you've learned from the experience of owning these two companies. So welcome and start by telling us what these companies are and the lessons they've taught you.

**Carl Kawaja** (4:02)
Sure. Thanks, Patrick. Thanks for having me on the show. I'm a great admirer of it, as you know.
Well, the two companies that I thought might be interesting to talk about fall in the category of, I hate to say the word unique because it's so overused, but very special businesses, distinctive businesses that do some of that's hard to replicate. And I guess what I was struck by in thinking about talking to you today was, what are companies that I've owned a long time and what kept me in them?