Can Pigs Really Appreciate Bach? Katherine Rundell Live

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Mia Sarenti (0:52)

Welcome to Intelligence Squared Live, the podcast that gives you a front row seat to the conversations, debates, and ideas that matter. I'm Mia Sarenti. What can the world's most extraordinary animals teach us about the natural world? And what do we stand to lose if they disappear? Today's episode is from our recent live event with best-selling author Katherine Rundell, whose writing celebrates the wonders of the animal kingdom and the urgent need to protect its most vulnerable inhabitants.

Following the success of The Golden Mole, Rundell joined us at Conway Hall to discuss her new book, Napoleon's Orangutan, which introduces 12 remarkable creatures and explores the surprising stories behind them. From Napoleon's pet orangutan to pigs that can distinguish between Bach and a brass band, Rundell reveals the intelligence, strangeness, and beauty of the animals we share our planet with and why their survival matters.

Let's join our host, Shahid Abari, now with more.

Shahid Abari (1:50)

Hello, it's lovely to see you. Thank you so much for joining us today at Conway Hall. It's lovely to have a full-ish house on an evening, on a Wednesday evening and pass some people's bedtime, but they're here too. Excellent. That's what we like to see. Pass lots of people's bedtime, I imagine, too. I'm Shahid Abari, I'm an academic critic and a broadcaster, and I'll be your host for this conversation with Katherine Rundell. I think writers are supposed to make you look at the world a bit differently.

But then there are writers who make you suspect that the world is completely strange and stranger than you'd previously given it credit to. And Katherine's one of those writers, as I imagine lots of you know, having read her work. She has a particular gift for introducing us to creatures that sound as though they've wandered out of a fairy tale or a myth only for us to learn that they are really quite real, and that the world would be immeasurably poorer without them, actually. In her book, The Golden Mole, The Modern Bestiary, she gave us a kind of literary menagerie, pangolins, warm bats, lemurs, seahorses and other extraordinary animals, each with their own peculiar, particular beauty, and often an improbable story, and also a very precarious place in the world, which I think are themes that emerge very obviously in this new book. Napoleon's Orangutan, which promises another journey, looks into the astonishing lives of other animals and the relationships that we have with them.

But before we meet the Orangutan in question, let me remind you, in case you don't know, that Katherine is also, of course, the celebrated author of the Impossible Creatures series, Super Infinite, the book about John Donne, many other books that have delighted readers of many other ages. She's the recipient of the Bailey Gifford Prize for Nonfiction, the Costa Children's Book Award, the Anderson Prize in Italy, and Leporee Saussure in France, among many others. And she's one of our most beguiling guides to The Marvelous. I'm going to be talking with her, but I'll also hand over the reins to her. So do have some questions. Start thinking of some fiendishly difficult things to fox her with. And we'll hand over the reins to you in a bit.

But if you're going to ask a question, I think it's only fair that you give us an animal impression before you do it. That's the bargain we should cut with our audience. And you've got time to prepare. But Kevin's very kindly going to start us off with a little reading from Napoleon's Orangutan. And I'll hand over to her.

Katherine Rundell (4:31)

Hello. Good evening. Thank you all so much for coming. It is a huge joy to be here with you. And very grateful to you for coming out on one of the worst days of the year so far. Immensely kind.