Can Patreon fight fire with social media fire?

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**SPEAKER_3** (1:37)
It feels good to Geico.

**Nilay Patel** (1:43)
Hello and welcome to Decoder. I'm Nilay Patel, Editor-in-Chief of The Verge, and Decoder is my show about big ideas and other problems. Today, I'm talking to Jack Conte, the CEO of Patreon. Jack last joined me on the show almost exactly five years ago, in the summer of 2021 And it's safe to say that a lot has changed on the internet and in the creator landscape since then. So I was very excited to talk to Jack again, especially since his ideas about what Patreon is and how it should work have changed dramatically as big social media platforms have gotten more closed off and more flooded by AI slot. In fact, you'll hear Jack say that he now thinks of Patreon as an index of small business media companies, a dramatic change in perspective that's led him to make Patreon a more direct competitor to social platforms like Instagram and TikTok. That's a huge change. In fact, the last time we talked, Jack was adamantly opposed to building any kind of discovery features into Patreon at all. But then Patreon built those features to help people discover content from new creators. And Jack's reasoning for that change will be very familiar if you've been listening to our media conversations here on Decoder. Jack says if Patreon didn't build its own audience platform, then everyone would be at the mercy of Meta and Google to find audiences and customers.
Jack has really strong opinions about this. In fact, you'll hear him say that the current ways platforms treat creators is disgusting. And you'll hear him convincingly argue that big tech companies are going to just keep taking everyone's work however they want, and writers and musicians and artists of every kind will be left holding the bag. But you'll also hear Jack argue that this leaves a really big opportunity for a company like Patreon, which connects creators directly with audiences. In a world full of cheap and easy slop, Patreon's plan is to build demand from real people who want to connect in deep and important ways with real artists. There's way more in this one. Jack came fired up to answer the Decoder questions, and we spent some real time talking about his approach to how meetings feel, something you just won't hear from many other CEOs.
All in all, this was a pretty refreshing conversation. I think you're really going to like it. Okay, Patreon CEO Jack Conte. Here we go.
Jack Conte, you're the co-founder and CEO of Patreon. Welcome back to Decoder.

**Jack Conte** (4:04)
Thanks, Nilay. Good to be here again.

**Nilay Patel** (4:06)
It's good to see you again. It has been five years since you were last on the show. I can't believe it.

**Jack Conte** (4:11)
So much has changed.

**Nilay Patel** (4:13)
A lot has changed. The creator economy has changed. The idea that everything is a TikTok clip has now totally upended the culture. Patreon itself has changed. Maybe we've all changed. Really, the true creator economy is the friends we've made along the way.
How has your idea of Patreon changed over the last five years? I feel like there has been a lot of change. How would you describe Patreon today in 2026?