Can Data Centers Be Done Right?

**Elena Schlossberg** (0:00)
If they have to pay for their own stuff, you better believe they'll innovate. Because I gave this example all the time, somebody drops you off at a car max, and they say, the world is your oyster, pick whatever you want, you're probably going to pick the Ferrari. But if they say, hey, you have to cover the cost to your own car, you might pick the Ford Fiesta. And right now, they're picking the Lamborghini up, our dime, and it's time they picked the Ford Fiesta. They have to innovate.

**Kara Swisher** (0:36)
Hi everyone from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. This is On with Kara Swisher and I'm Kara Swisher. Today, we're talking about data centers, and we're talking about them a lot. I hope you will stick with it because it's a very long and involved series of interviews about what's happening in data centers. I think it's well worth your time because the five biggest hyperscalers that include Amazon, Google and Microsoft are on track to spend roughly $1 trillion on AI infrastructure between 2025 and this year as part of an accelerating AI boom driven by tech companies and investors and supported by the White House. But a recent Gallup poll found seven in 10 Americans oppose constructing AI data centers in their local area.
AI data centers have become a bi-partisan political issue in light of growing concerns about their impact on water, on air quality, on the power grid and energy costs. My guests today are each dealing with the environmental political effects of data centers in different ways. Erin Brockovich is a veteran environmental activist and consumer advocate. She's best known for investigation in a contaminated water in Hinkley, California and the landmark legal victory for residents that inspired the film Erin Brockovich. You should go watch it. It's so great. This year, Erin launched a map tracking the data center build out across the US. Logan Mitchell is a climate and air quality scientist and analyst for Utah Clean Energy. In addition to other research, he's calculated the emissions for the proposed Stratus Data Center in Box Elder County, Utah. Elena Schlossberg is the executive director of the Coalition to Protect Prince William County, a grassroots organization based in Northern Virginia that led the push against the sprawling data center project called Digital Gateway. And Andy Schor is the mayor of Lansing, Michigan. He supported a proposal for what he called a sensible responsible data center project in downtown Lansing from a company that emphasizes environmental sustainability. And it did not pass.
It's really important to understand why this happened. Even sensible ones are getting shot down. And how do you do the right data center build out, which is somewhat critical to the future of technology? And at the same time, are all of us sick of billionaires telling all of us what to do? I know I am, and I'm sure lots more people are. It's a bipartisan issue. It's really important. And it's really at the core of democracy is why I'm interested. Data centers are a proxy for anger over tech. And I want to have a thoughtful discussion about why that is and what we can do.
Our expert question today comes from Beth Macy, a reporter and author of books including Dope Sick and Paper Girl. She's currently running for Congress in Virginia's 6th district, and she knows a lot about these issues. So stick around.
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