Callsign White Flight

**Lea Cheshire** (0:00)
Houston, We Have a Podcast. Welcome to the official podcast of the NASA Johnson Space Center, episode 433, Call Sign, White Flight. I'm Lea Cheshire, and I'm your host today. On this podcast, we bring in the experts, scientists, engineers and astronauts, all to let you know what's going on in the world of human spaceflight and more. This week, we're bringing back a very treasured interview, just in time for our guests' upcoming birthday. Two years ago on episode 355, I had the great honor of sitting down with none other than Gene Kranz, NASA's second chief flight director and the lead flight director during Apollo missions 11 and 13
Gene joined NASA in 1960, becoming one of the most significant figures in the space race and ultimately leading America to the first lunar landing. In 2024, we spoke with him about his experiences in the agency, his leadership and legacy, and lessons that must be carried into NASA's future exploration goals with Artemis. And his 93rd birthday is right around the corner on August 17th. Happy birthday, Gene. This podcast was really a gift to all of us. It's one of my personal favorite conversations I've had while at NASA, and I hope you enjoy it too. Let's go.
Hi Gene, and thank you so much for coming on Houston We Have a Podcast today.

**Gene Kranz** (1:34)
Well, it's really great to be back in mission control for the media. You know, this is really a challenge. Many years we spent there addressing the press.
And this was a real learning curve for all the young flight directors we had, and in fact the controllers, because we'd bring them along to the sessions. But this gave us a feel for the other side of the business. And we developed a very strong, firm relationship with our media at that time.

**Lea Cheshire** (2:06)
That's fantastic. We're going to reminisce a lot today, but I want to talk about the right now, too. So what have you been up to lately? How are you doing?

**Gene Kranz** (2:14)
Well, basically, I just finished cleaning up from the hurricane that we had down in Dickinson, took a lot of trees down, we lost power and Internet, and it's a real experience to learn to live without all these things you become accustomed to all your life, Internet, telephone, TV.
But basically, what I'm doing now is I'm in the process of transferring my work history to various facilities. I've sent all of my flying gear up to Oshkosh, Wisconsin. They're restoring an aircraft for me up there. St. Louis University came in, and they're getting all my documentation, all of my memorabilia. I have the Junior High in Dickinson there, the beautiful display area they've set up for me. And my home base was Toledo Central Catholic, and that is where the mooner, I went to the lunar rockets when I was declared a ambassador of exploration. So basically, I want to get the materials I have out to the young people and provide the inspiration to the next generation, what space is all about.

**Lea Cheshire** (3:20)
Yeah, everybody that will value it. And you've really not, I mean, you retired from NASA, but you haven't really retired in life. You are still so busy. You talk to the interns here. You've written some books.
What's that been like, passing that on to the future generation and just sharing all of your stories and your lessons?

**Gene Kranz** (3:38)
To me, it's a very simple process. We have six kids and five girls, one boy. And basically, five of the six worked in the space program here. And basically, they basically provided the inspiration for me to continue relationship with the young people because they are the seed corn for the future. They are the individuals that are going to pick up and carry the work that we did forward, not only in space, but basically in medicine and technology, all of the things that came about as a result of the space. So basically, I'm in the process of transferring my work history.
To the various places where young people will see this and hopefully be inspired and take the risks to become an engineer, a scientist, work in the media, basically address the people of the nation about the business of space.

**Lea Cheshire** (4:35)
Amazing. And the books that you've written, what's that like going through that process and deciding what makes the cut and what doesn't?

**Gene Kranz** (4:42)
Well, the first book I had a contract, and basically I had a word count, I had an editor that was on top of my case all the time. And if they didn't like what is putting in there, they'd edit this stuff out. The second book is entirely different. It's self-published. And basically it was a lot more enjoyable read. I had to do a lot of research about my people. I found that in mission control, when we moved into the Houston area, our recruiting zone was the Great Plains. And I had a large number of people that came in from various schools. There was one, Southwest Oklahoma State College, that I had three students come in from. I did not know that they were Native American Indians that basically were transferred from the Rosebud Cherokee tribe up in the Dakotas. And they're working for me now. I had flight directors who became members. They had been through the same school. They were farm boys, ranchers. So it was interesting. I learned a lot more about the people, but in particular, I learned more about the people I flew with.