Byron Sharp vs Mark Ritson - 5 big marketing truths we agree on

**Jon Evans** (0:00)
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All right, without further ado, let's go on with the show.

**Mark Ritson** (0:40)
Only around 45% of marketers know what penetration is.

**Byron Sharp** (0:44)
Well, I mean, it's sort of slightly...

**Mark Ritson** (0:46)
Good, I knew you would.

**Byron Sharp** (0:48)
I don't like the term long term. I think it's hopeless communicating to a CFO. They're just like... That means I can't ever tell.

**Mark Ritson** (0:55)
What are you, literally, like, what are you talking about?

**Byron Sharp** (0:58)
I mean, I think our job is to invest in students to say, okay, look, you're having this debate in industry. What are the empirical claims that people are making?
Let's go get some evidence for them.

**Mark Ritson** (1:08)
You're not that important. Get back in your lane. But that's why you need miserable, old, middle-aged professors like us. Because we are genuine, we genuinely don't care. Byron will occasionally come on to social media and sort of spank someone. And I always imagine him coming up from the depths, saying, someone has summoned me with that nonsense. He goes, that's nonsense. We proved that in 1976, and he sort of submerges himself back.

**Byron Sharp** (1:33)
I know, sometimes people go, you're being mean, but I'm pointing out an error.

**Mark Ritson** (1:38)
And people are fascinated with what a strange motherfucker you are, right? Because you are immune to this, you know, swirling vortex of horseshit.

**Jon Evans** (1:55)
We've got you both here, thank you for doing this.

**Mark Ritson** (1:57)
Are we on now?

**Jon Evans** (1:58)
We've always been on, by the way. Okay, yeah, sorry, I didn't realize. No, don't worry, that's the point.

**Byron Sharp** (2:02)
I'm now gonna get sued.

**Jon Evans** (2:03)
It's almost a decade since you two were in the same room debating marketing. Great conversation on champagne. Mark, do you wanna open the champagne for us now?
You have the skills on the...

**Mark Ritson** (2:12)
As I said earlier, it's not my first word, yeah. I now may struggle because I'm extremely...

**Jon Evans** (2:16)
Mark, it's a font of champagne knowledge. Quite literally.
So as we were just saying there, the entry level crew gives the pick, right?

**Mark Ritson** (2:25)
Well, look, there are a couple of pieces of advice I would give any aspiring marketer, having worked in the world of luxury, but not wanting to spend too much money. If you want to get away with having good taste in wine, and you know nothing about it, order a bottle of Krug non-vintage.
It infers you're an expert. And the other one is if you're going to wear a watch, wear a Speedmaster because it's a relatively lower price watch by the luxury standards, but no one in Switzerland will give you shit for wearing an Omega Speedmaster.

**Jon Evans** (2:53)
Okay, and I just, it's a camera there. Okay.

**Mark Ritson** (2:57)
I didn't know that. There is a dark side of the moon, which isn't there. You're the best.

**Byron Sharp** (3:02)
That did not sigh like you did.

**Mark Ritson** (3:05)
It screamed.

**Byron Sharp** (3:06)
There's apparently a pub in Adelaide that serves Krug in, you know, the Australian, the butcher, the glass, the, yeah. And it's like, it's always on the menu, apparently.

**Mark Ritson** (3:17)
Well, you remember the old What's-his-face? He was a lord at one point, used to serve it with his shepherd's pie in January.

**Jon Evans** (3:26)
Jeffrey Archer.

**Mark Ritson** (3:27)
Jeffrey Archer.

**Jon Evans** (3:29)
He was the novelist, politician.

**Mark Ritson** (3:30)
He was a lot of things. Jeffrey Archer.

**Byron Sharp** (3:33)
Yeah, he had a lot of money, right, from the books, yeah.

**Mark Ritson** (3:35)
Krug and shepherd's pie was the ultimate company.

**Jon Evans** (3:39)
There's something quite rock and roll about that.

**Mark Ritson** (3:40)
Very rock and roll. Yeah.

**Jon Evans** (3:43)
So when did you guys first meet each other? Obviously, they date 10 years ago. I know, you're dating history here. When did you first meet?

**Mark Ritson** (3:52)