Building Software With Thorsten Ball: Decoupling Code for Agents, Finding "Your Pain" and Germans Use the Winky Face

**Matt Carey** (0:00)
Yeah, we don't give you any time to-

**Wilhelm Klopp** (0:01)
Hello, welcome to the Bad Agent Podcast.

**Thorsten Ball** (0:03)
Not an issue, so as I was saying.

**Wilhelm Klopp** (0:06)
Okay, wait, can I actually, I wonder if I can share this, because I think it would be nice to play our new podcast, Jingle, for Torsten.

**Thorsten Ball** (0:16)
Do it. Is it with real instruments?

**Matt Carey** (0:18)
Wait, I was going to play it on my phone next to my microphone and see if that works. That was actually my general plan.

**Wilhelm Klopp** (0:24)
If I share my screen.

**Thorsten Ball** (0:25)
That's professional. That's how you recorded it too.

**Matt Carey** (0:30)
Well, we tried, we did an interview with Sunil and he played this like jingle on his guitar.

**Wilhelm Klopp** (0:37)
Okay, are you ready for this? I hope this works.

**SPEAKER_4** (0:39)
Nothing, nothing, dude. I can't hear anything.

**Matt Carey** (0:42)
Yeah, I gotta play it on my phone next to my mic.

**Wilhelm Klopp** (0:45)
Oh my god. I just had the best jingle of my life, you guys.

**SPEAKER_4** (0:50)
Did you?

**Wilhelm Klopp** (0:52)
I was worried there was such a little reaction.

**Matt Carey** (0:55)
Okay, which one was the one that you liked? Was it the last one you sent me?

**Wilhelm Klopp** (1:01)
Yeah, I'll send it to you again.

**Matt Carey** (1:07)
Was it this one?

**SPEAKER_4** (1:10)
Welcome to the Bad Agent Podcast with Matt and Wil.

**Wilhelm Klopp** (1:13)
And Thorsten.

**SPEAKER_4** (1:15)
That's cool.

**Thorsten Ball** (1:16)
That's how bad it all.

**Wilhelm Klopp** (1:18)
Should we hear it again? Yeah, okay.

**Matt Carey** (1:21)
Just to see, should we hear some of your bloopers? They're even better, I think.

**Wilhelm Klopp** (1:25)
No, no, no.

**Thorsten Ball** (1:26)
Will sang this?

**Matt Carey** (1:27)
Yeah, Will sang this. Can you not hear Will singing?

**Thorsten Ball** (1:31)
Everything is changing, total names change, and new models from top singers.

**SPEAKER_4** (1:36)
Welcome to The Bad Agent Podcast with Matt and Will.

**Matt Carey** (1:39)
I think it sounded better the second time around.

**Thorsten Ball** (1:42)
How did you, is this, is it AI?

**Matt Carey** (1:45)
This is Will's organic production.

**Wilhelm Klopp** (1:50)
This is the latest 11 Labs music thing, which is actually really good. I mean, to be fair, it did take a couple of attempts, as I guess is just like normal with doing this kind of creative stuff. You take a couple of attempts, and but yeah, it's surprisingly like, and a bit of creative brainstorming or whatever. But yeah, I thought it was decent as well.

**Thorsten Ball** (2:10)
How did you, how does it do the whole, you know, it has like the intro thing and then the name, you know, becomes like the main thing. Like, can you say it's a jingle or something?

**Wilhelm Klopp** (2:22)
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
You tell it it's a jingle. Let me see if I can get the like chat. And it's like, it's like a chat interface as well. So you can do like iterations. But yeah, I think you can literally tell it it's a, it's a jingle.

**Thorsten Ball** (2:34)
Yeah, it's pretty cool.

**Matt Carey** (2:35)
I think they announced it like a week ago or week and a half ago. As soon as they announced it, I messaged Wil and was like, dude, we've been waiting for this. We need a jingle because I don't know how, I don't know if you've listened to any of the previous ones, but we just listened to snippets.

**Thorsten Ball** (2:49)
Yeah.

**Matt Carey** (2:50)
Yeah, we upload this pretty much raw, which is kind of funny. Anyway, I was going to say, I was going to intro us as welcome back to Wil interviewing his former teammates. That was the way I was going to introduce this.

**Thorsten Ball** (3:00)
Did you work with Lou Wilson before? No.

**Matt Carey** (3:03)
No, we had Danilo.

**Thorsten Ball** (3:05)
Oh, yeah.

**SPEAKER_4** (3:06)
There you go. Yeah.

**Wilhelm Klopp** (3:07)
Wait, as I'm sorry, I do Thorsten's intro?

**Matt Carey** (3:10)
No. Well, you can do if you want.

**Wilhelm Klopp** (3:13)
I was rehearsing that as well. I'm sorry. I thought that's what you meant. Because we've done that a few times.

**Matt Carey** (3:17)
No, let's go.

**Wilhelm Klopp** (3:17)
Get there, Juliet. Don't worry. All right. So here we go. Thorsten's total legend. You will have seen him on Twitter for ages. Very incredibly strong software engineer, but also a great writer. One of the things actually I think we should promote here is Thorsten's perfect beautiful newsletter. That sounds a bit like a Trumpian description. You're moving your hands.