Brent Ashworth’s Personal Experiences with Mark Hofmann: Counterfeiter, Forger & Convicted Murderer (S4 E13)

**Brad Westwood** (0:04)
Welcome to the podcast Speak Your Piece. This is a podcast about Utah's history produced by the Utah Department of Culture and Community Engagement. I'm Brad Westwood, Senior Public Historian. My job is to make the very best, the most interesting, the most accurate history about Utah accessible to the widest audience.
I hope that there's one place, one podcast to get your Utah history fix. I hope this is the place.
My guest today is long-time friend Brent Ashworth, owner of B. Ashworth, Inc. a Provo, Utah, rare book and document and artifact company, which Brent opened in 2006 Now, Brent, you've been a collector since when?

**Brent Ashworth** (0:47)
Well, actually 1956, so it's only been 66 years.

**Brad Westwood** (0:53)
But your business, official business interests, as far as B. Ashworth, was established in 2006

**Brent Ashworth** (0:59)
It was, yes.

**Brad Westwood** (1:01)
Brent's firm deals primarily in rare US history, Mormon and Western materials. Previously, he was vice president, general counsel and corporate secretary for Nature Sunshine Products of Spanish Fork, Utah. Also, New Way's International, Shackley Corporation of Pleasanton, California, and more recently as general counsel for Zeejah International. Brent still also practices law independently and is on various boards. But his primary love and focus is dealing with the company B. Ashworth.
Our topic today with Brent Ashworth is Mark Hoffman, rare book and manuscript dealer and perhaps one of America's most infamous American and LDS history counterfeiters.
A consummate forger and a convicted murderer. In 2021, I had a fascinating conversation with architect and historian Alan D. Roberts regarding his and Linda Silito's 1988 book, Salamander, the story of Mormon forgery murderers. Not long after Jared Hess and Tyler Meesom's Netflix TV mini documentary, Murder Among the Mormons. When that came out, we interviewed the authors of really the very best book on the subject. Today, however, we're going to talk about someone who has perhaps the best understanding, in my view, of Mark Hofmann as a collector and as someone who interacted in the marketplace for many years.
Today, Brent and I will be discussing his reflections on Mark Hofmann, and most particularly Brent's personal experiences with him. Once more, Brent, welcome to Speak Your Piece.

**Brent Ashworth** (2:53)
Well, thanks for having me, Brad.

**Brad Westwood** (2:56)
Brent, we have had a number of conversations in the past, and I was stunned by the number of materials that you have collected over the years related to Hofmann and his forgeries.
And there are a number that we're going to have in the show notes. I wanted to first ask you about your very first interaction with Mr. Hofmann, May 27, 1981 Would you frame that up?

**Brent Ashworth** (3:24)
Sure, you bet. Well, I had been in the old Cosmic Airplane bookstore.
The day before. And a friend of mine, Steve Barnett, was working there. Steve and I had an autographed business back in the early 70s. It was called Ashworth and Barnett. And so I'd known Steve for many years. He mentioned that Mark Hofmann, who we'd all heard about, had come in the day before, had actually sold them some hair, identified as Joseph and Hyrum Smith's hair.
He showed me a photocopy scan of it, the boss had it put away. And he gave me Hofmann's phone number. I'd been a pretty well-known collector in Utah for over 20 years before that time. Collected items dealing with LDS history, but also with American and world history as well, and particularly Old West history, which I loved and still love, continue to collect all those areas. And Steve knew that and he gave me Mark's phone number. So I called him up and I got him. He answered. And during the phone call, I mentioned to him how I had collected LDS items since 1956, a long time, but that I had had several documents signed by Joseph Smith, but I'd never had a full letter. And he says, Oh, I just happened to have one. I said, Really? I got excited about it.
It was a, you know, rather mundane letter. It was a letter that just described from the prophet that that Brother so-and-so said they should give their it was to Emma Smith to give their cross plow to help the poor. And he thought they should do it. And it was dated March 6, 1833 It looked good.
Well, I made him a deal.
We traded him several items and I gave him $4,000 in cash. It was $6,000 total. So part of it was trade. And that was our first transaction. The day after our phone call, I received this letter. Do you want me to share it?

**Brad Westwood** (5:40)