Bitcoin Savings vs Casino Exchanges | Julian Liniger SLP777

Julian Liniger (0:01)

Hi, everyone.

Stephan Livera (0:01)

Welcome back to Stephan Livera Podcast. Joining me on the show today is Julian Liniger. Julian is co-founder and CEO of Relai, a Europe's Bitcoin saving company, basically. So Julian, welcome to the show.

Julian Liniger (0:12)

Thank you. Thank you so much, Stephen. You're always talking so fast. I hope I can keep up with your pace.

Stephan Livera (0:17)

Well, I'll try and slow it down then. Look, let's just start on the macro side of things.

It seems like everything's happening so quickly, especially in the AI world. But obviously, you're based in Europe, a Swiss Bitcoin company. What would you say is top of mind for people in Europe nowadays, like when they're thinking about the economy?

Julian Liniger (0:38)

I feel like a lot of Europeans are, especially when it comes to capital markets and what's going on, as you said, in AI and big IPOs and where all the investment, the capital is flowing in, they're still looking to the US. And I feel like many Europeans come to the conclusion now, to the realization that the US is really leading and the US and China are both really leading in these new topics, AI, etc. and innovation in general and the capital markets where the money is flowing. And Europe is really just staying behind all this. We regulate the shit out of everything and innovation is kind of kept very stale. It's really hard to innovate in Europe. And I think the other big point is the cost of living. I think now in Europe, of course in the US as well, but in Europe, we clearly, even in Switzerland, even in Switzerland, just this morning in the radio, I heard them talking about the cost of living going up a few percent as opposed to the 0.8 percent of inflation, the official inflation, but like clearly everything from health insurance to car insurance, nutrition, traveling, everything's just going up several percent a year. And people are starting to feel it and in Switzerland, even less than in other European countries like Germany, Italy, France. The industrial collapse is really something that people also are feeling. There are less, it's harder to get a job. There are less jobs. So I think Europe is in a difficult spot. And even more so, it becomes really important for people to understand Bitcoin. Because I really believe Bitcoin long term is a way out of all of this. The cost of living, the inflation of the euro. And just if you save in euro or euro bonds, I mean, the bonds is another topic. The bonds rates are going crazy. And the bond market is collapsing as well. If you are saving your hard earned money in fiat currency, especially in the euro, you're basically, you're just not going to get anywhere. You're never going to be able to afford a house and a good lifestyle for you and your family in the next 10, 20 years. As opposed to if you save in Bitcoin, step by step put more of your hard earned dollars and euro into Bitcoin. I think in 10, 20 years, people will be doing well.

But on that side, that's the last point. I also think the adoption and the understanding of Bitcoin in Europe is still very low. It's still like around 10, 15 percent of people that actually get it. Still the early adopters and the big masses, the 80 percent plus don't get it yet. But that's what we, for example, are working on every day and you too, right?

Stephan Livera (3:11)

What would you say the biggest hurdles are for a typical European person, right? Obviously, you're speaking for a whole continent where we have to make some generalizations. We're talking about like what, half a billion people or something like, at least 400 million people, 300, 400 million people, right?

What would you say the typical hurdles are for them? Is it just that they think it's like, do they think it's crypto is a scam or do they think it's just too volatile? Or do they just think, I don't have enough money to even save? What do you think? If you just talk to a random person on the street, what do you think they would say?

Julian Liniger (3:41)

I feel like doing this for more than 10 years at this point, right? I discovered Bitcoin in 2015, and for a long time, I've been very passionate, and so I talked to a lot of people trying to get them to understand it. And to be honest, the realization I had 10 years ago, when I tried to convince people, it's not much different than when I try to do it now. It's still the fundamentals haven't changed, right? Bitcoin is just the best savings technology, best store of value ever, 21 million only, you cannot print more of it, banks cannot stop it, governance cannot print it, etc. So it's all these amazing, this digital gold narrative, etc. It's still the same, it's still super valuable. And many people, many institutions got it, but I feel like still, if you go on the street today and you ask 10 people, nine out of 10 just, they kind of understand it, but it's not exciting for them somehow. And whenever the price is up, they feel like they missed the train. Whenever the price is down, they're like, I'm not gonna touch this shit.