Ben Wikler Has a Plan to Save Democracy

**Ben Wikler** (0:00)
This is maybe a scary bet to take. I don't think Republicans have 50 votes in the Senate for the SAVE Act. And a lot of that is because the SAVE Act, it is a piece of shit legislation that would be disastrous for tons of Republican voters as well as Democratic.

**Kara Swisher** (0:13)
Yeah, that's a technical term, piece of shit legislation.

**Ben Wikler** (0:15)
Piece of shit legislation, yes, that's the term of art.

**Kara Swisher** (0:30)
Hi, everyone, from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network, this is On with Kara Swisher and I'm Kara Swisher. My guest today is Ben Wikler, political organizer and author of the new book, This Is the Plan, How to End America's Meltdown and Save Democracy.
Ben has worked in progressive political organizing for over two decades, including as the former Washington director of Move On, and later as chair of the Democratic Party of Wisconsin from 2019 to 2025
During his time as chair, Democrats won 10 out of 13 statewide races. Ben is credited with leading a political comeback for his state party and turning the Wisconsin Democrats into what the New York Times called a fundraising colossus. Ben ran for the chair of the Democratic National Committee in 2025 and lost to Ken Martin. Later that year, he stepped down from his role as chair of the Wisconsin Democrats. He's now applying the grassroots organizing strategies that worked in Wisconsin to a national plan which he argues could defeat Trumpism and end America's slide into authoritarianism. I think it's really important to talk to all these various political organizers as the Democrats try to figure out their way out of the wilderness and actually to winning back the American populous. It's a really important time to think about various ways to do that. This is yet another and Ben is one of the smartest thinkers in the country about this. Our expert question today comes from Ested Herndon, veteran political journalist and host of the Vox Media Podcast, America Actually, so stick around.

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**Kara Swisher** (3:34)
Ben, thank you for coming on On.

**Ben Wikler** (3:36)
It's a delight to be with you today.

**Kara Swisher** (3:38)
I want to sort of set the table. You talk about the need to unrig America and build a quote government that works for people instead of plutocrats.
It's a recurring theme in US politics forever. When Teddy Roosevelt campaigned for the Progressive Party in 1912, he railed against the unholy alliance between corrupt businesses and corrupt politics. Obviously, I talk about it a lot ever since the inauguration and the sort of rightward shift to the tech moguls, who are the ones we're talking about here. Talk about how it's the same or different today. Are we always sort of doomed to this rigging of whatever particular business group is on top at any one time in the United States?

**Ben Wikler** (4:16)
Go back across the history of the country, there are waves of power that accumulate in a tiny number of hands, and people trying to lock in their power and control. And then there are waves of the public rising up and then changing the rules to be able to protect the idea of democracy and expand the circle of freedom.
That's a cycle we've always had. In this moment, there's a more rapid and bigger accumulation of wealth and power than we've ever seen. And Elon Musk is at the top of it. He's the world's first trillionaire. There could be more trillionaires.