Asma's Syria | We call her Emma Ep6

**SPEAKER_2** (0:04)
Tortoise Investigates.

**Chloe Hadjimatheou** (0:12)
Sometimes, it's just about being in the right place at the right time. That and dogged persistence.
There have been people in Syria I've wanted to speak to for years, but I'd come to accept that being in the same room as certain regime insiders was unlikely to happen. And even though that calculations changed since the fall of the Assad regime, lots of people still want to stay in the shadows, or at least not stray too far into the light. Bashar and Asma might be hundreds of miles away from Damascus, but there are new reasons for regime-connected people to be fearful about telling their stories.

**SPEAKER_4** (0:54)
Atif Najib will be tried under both Syrian and international law. He is facing multiple charges, including the detention of minors…

**Chloe Hadjimatheou** (1:01)
After years of being untouchable, people like Atif Najib, one of the men accused of torturing those teenagers in Daraa at the start of the revolution, are now on trial, facing lengthy prison sentences for crimes they must have thought they'd gotten away with. Actually, while we were in Damascus, we heard the news that Amjad Yousef was arrested. He's a particularly notorious man, nicknamed the Butcher of Tadamon.
He's accused of playing a central role in the massacre of dozens of people in a suburb in the south of Damascus. And of ordering the execution of six children, siblings aged between 2 and 14 years old, on the grounds that these children were terrorists. For years now, these types of regime enforcers have been popping up in Europe too and facing trials here. But in Syria, it will take years for the prosecutors to work their way through the list. And for those who had a hand in propping up the Assad regime, it could just be a matter of time before they get that knock on the door.
Lots of the people closest to Asma and Bashar are adamant that they really didn't do anything wrong. They never got their hands dirty. There's one such person who I had my sights set on because of his position. This is a man who's a big name in Syria in the business world. And he was very much in bed with the regime. He was friendly with some of the top people running the country. He would have had to have been in order to operate there for as long as he did. And given Asma's control of the economy and big business in Syria, we're pretty sure he has things to tell us. When our Syrian producer Sarah first approached him, he was cagey, but over time she coaxed him into a back and forth over WhatsApp. And then to everyone's surprise, a message suddenly comes through saying he'll meet us. Before we get in the cab, Sarah tells us not to mention his real name out loud, not even in front of the taxi driver. That's the kind of reputation he has. So between ourselves, we start referring to him as George. And I'll stick with that name here.
It's a long night of pleasantries edging towards the reason all of us are there. But we leave his house with an agreement. George will go on the record if we change his voice and we don't name him. We're pretty sure the interview is going to be about Asma's influence in the economy. But when we do speak to him, he'll tell us that Asma's ambitions went far beyond that. Her involvement wasn't limited to orphanages and the world of business. He'll say she was preparing to run the country.
I'm Chloe Hadjimatheou, from Tortoise Investigates and The Observer. This is We call her Emma.
Episode six, Asma's Syria.
Our hotel in the old city of Damascus is like a little oasis of calm in the heart of all the chaos. It has a courtyard with a fountain, there are trees and birds. As we're walking out on our way to our interview with George, we pass Mohammed the Concierge and his team at reception. And there, right next to where they're sitting up on the wall is a gallery of photos. They're hotel guests from over the years, and there's one picture that stops us in our tracks.

**Basia Cummings** (5:15)
Do you remember the visit well?

**Chloe Hadjimatheou** (5:17)
It's only Brangelina in the same hotel we're staying in. Which room did they stay in?

**Mohammed** (5:24)
The room number 16, suite type.

**Chloe Hadjimatheou** (5:28)
Not like my room, a bit bigger?

**Mohammed** (5:30)
Bigger, yes, it's bigger. It's double X.

**Chloe Hadjimatheou** (5:33)
Well, you can't have it all. When were they here?

**Mohammed** (5:37)
They was here in 2009

**Chloe Hadjimatheou** (5:40)