Are UFOs Alien Tech? Avi Loeb vs Michael Shermer

Avi Loeb (0:00)

The scientific approach should be guided by evidence, and we shouldn't have a prejudice. We shouldn't have a view about the outcome before we see the evidence. Now, one reason I have you in the council is so that those believers will attack you instead of me for using the scientific method.

Michael Shermer (0:26)

I have to say, Brian, the vitriol on both sides, it's amazing what people say about each other. Not just on X, but on X especially bad. But as I've gotten to know Avi pretty well, I'm just amazed by the stuff that people, the shit they talk about him. It's like, oh my God. I mean, this is ridiculous. He's not at all like this.

And yet, you know, and then people, of course, they hate on me and they hate on the believers or whatever. I don't know. It just seems to be, it's almost political, right? I mean, it's like politics.

Avi Loeb (0:59)

The way to think about it is what people say reflects on them more than on the subject that they're talking about. We see that a lot in politics. We see it, but we see it in science as well. And then the way to distinguish between truth and what people are saying is to look at the primary sources. So if someone says that I said something, go ahead and check if Avi said that thing. And when you check the primary sources, you will realize that I didn't say that thing. And that's the way science is done, by the way. We go to nature, to the data that is collected by instruments to tell us what is out there, rather than talk about what is out there, which is very common on social media. You just say what you think is out there. But that's not necessarily what is out there. Most of the time we are wrong. So the same is true when you say that a person should be dismissed because he said this and that. We should check if that person actually said that. And unfortunately, social media is such a shallow platform that people don't really go to the primary sources. They don't really check.

Just yesterday, someone was saying that I said bad things about Jay Stratton.

I didn't say, I said only positive things about Jay Stratton.

Personally, if you look at my essay, I only gave his credentials. And I said that we should look for the evidence behind what he's talking about, which is exactly what I'm saying right now. It's not a bad thing to say that about Jay Stratton. It's about the fact that enough with storytelling, enough with verbal testimonies, we are at an age where it's time for us to look at the evidence. And that's what I'm saying. I think that resonates very well with what the public wants. If Jay Stratton says there is a spacecraft that is withheld within government or within corporations, I want to see the spacecraft. What could be more natural than that?

Before I believe it, and someone may say, well, he's worried about showing the spacecraft because he might get something, you know, retaliation.

And I say, well, he doesn't need to show it to me. He doesn't need to show it to Michael. He doesn't need to show it to the council. He can go straight to the White House and have a guided tour of President Trump to the spacecraft. The only person who would know about it is President Trump. There is no doubt that President Trump is interested in this subject. Why? Because he put the directive out. He sees a political benefit from being the person who provides the revelation about alien intelligence. You know, that would be a huge event. President Trump will be remembered for thousands of years just by making this recognition that we are not alone, that we are not perhaps at the top of the cosmic food chain. So it will be a great political boon for President Trump. There is no doubt that he wants it. And so I'm saying, Jay Stratton, you know about the spacecraft. Go ahead and give the inside information straight to President Trump. I'm not asking to know about it myself, but if you want, I'll be happy to help.

Brian Keating (4:22)

I heard the exact same thing from Michael Shermer a couple months ago when he was on my show for his wonderful new book, and he was using not President Trump, Marco Rubio. But I have a better idea. How about Councilwoman Luna? And by the way, Avi, you're very close with her. She did kind of a glow up shot of herself visiting your Harvard Observatory and looked through the telescope during the day.