Are People Becoming Less Moral? - Alex O'Connor - #729

**Chris Williamson** (0:00)
Hello everybody, welcome back to the show. My guest today is Alex O'Connor. He's a YouTuber, writer, and a podcaster. Grappling with difficult moral questions is a part of human life, but in the age of Wikipedia and ChatGPT, are we now outsourcing our morality? Are people becoming less moral over time? And why does Peter Hitchens really hate Alex? Expect to learn what actually happened when Peter Hitchens stormed out of Alex's interview, whether ChatGPT can be convinced of the existence of God, what the non-identity problem is, if nihilism will make a comeback, the impact of the debate around free will, how much we can trust the historical accuracy of the Bible and much more. Do you want to change your life this year alongside thousands of others all doing the same? Well, Gymshark 66 might help you do just that. Over 66 days, Gymshark 66 challenges you to focus on small wins every day to help form life-changing habits. All that you need to do is download the free Gymshark training app right now on Android or iOS and choose your three habits. Then start taking them off every day and track your progress. Why 66? Well, research shows that it takes 66 days on average to form a habit and forming new healthy habits can truly change your life. So get involved by using my link gym.sh modernwisdom66 or search Gymshark training in the app store. That's gym.sh modernwisdom66 or type Gymshark training in the app store. One of my favorite purchases over the last two years has been my cold plunge from the team over at plunge.com. They are the gold standard when it comes to cold therapy. You may have heard Joe Rogan and Andrew Huberman talking about the benefits of repeated cold exposure and it is real. You feel so amazing after you've done it and the improvement in your mood is insane. So if you've been thinking that you want to get started doing cold therapy, but you cannot be bothered going to the store to get yourself ice every single time you need to do it, this is for you. Also, they've just released their own sauna, which is ridiculously high quality as well. And we are bouncing between the two doing what's called contrast therapy, which makes you feel even better. So yeah, if you're looking to make a change, if you're looking to get yourself a cold plunge or a sauna for your house, this is the place to go. Best of all, they've got a 30 day money back guarantee. So you can buy it and try it for 29 days. And if you do not like it, they will give you your money back. Go to plunge.com to get your cold plunge and sauna today with $150 off your purchase by using the code MW150 at checkout. That's plunge.com and the code MW150 at checkout. But now, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Alex O'Connor.
Alex O'Connor, welcome to the show.

**Alex O'Connor** (3:00)
How splendidly we progress. The first time on a Skype call, second time was in person in Austin, and now it's something of a sort of cinematic production. I fear that next time we'll be in 3D or something. It's good to see you again.

**Chris Williamson** (3:15)
Good to see you as well, mate. How are you feeling in the aftermath of Peter Hitchens?

**Alex O'Connor** (3:21)
Validated, vindicated. I must say that I was a little bit, I was in two minds about uploading that interview. He does, there was a bit of a mixture of opinion coming from him. He wasn't speaking entirely clearly, must have been something on his mind. He said, as he's getting up to walk out, I don't think you should run this. And I'm thinking, look, if my guest tells me that they don't want me to run an interview for any reason, it could be because they've had a bad hair day, then I'll respect that. And so I thought, damn, am I really going to have to, you know, be the bigger man here and just not post this at all? But then he kept saying, oh, run it if you like. I can't stop you from running it. I just don't think you have any moral right to run it. And I asked him why. And he said it was because I am a propagandist for drug decriminalization, a subject which, prior to that, by the way, I'd spoken about once ever. And that I'd intentionally tricked him to appear on my podcast in order that I might fool him into a conversation about drugs. Now, before the podcast started, I said, Mr. Hitchens, you have about three subject areas that we both talk about, where I think there's a bit of crossover that you've either spoken about or indeed written books about. And those are the decriminalization of drugs. I also mentioned this in my email. The existence of God or religion, I should say, God and religion is the topic. And the third was monarchy. At this point, he says, you know, monarchy is a bit boring.