Andrew Huberman - The Frontier of Neurotechnology

Patrick O'Shaughnessy (0:00)

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There's a very interesting thing happening that relates to a piece of your work, which I haven't seen you talk about as much, and so maybe it's a fun place to begin, which is that it feels like we're now bandwidth limited on the most talented people's ability to do work. Like it used to be that the rest of the world couldn't keep up with the most talented people, and so they would get frustrated that no one was moving as fast or as efficiently as they were. There seems to be something flipping, which is actually some of these people would earn a really high return if they could generate more energy, maintain more energy, not burn out. I heard this from several great entrepreneurs this summer that I think maybe Elon has just gotten into everyone's head that the real greats are going to run multiple companies.

Technology unlocks so much potential for the most talented people, and so this seems like an actual bottleneck is like these people's energy. And I'd be curious in all your research and study what you've learned about the component parts of this, like generating energy, maintaining it, clean versus dirty fuel, long-term performance, like all of these things are fascinating and I think actually important to the degree of progress. And so I would love you to just riff on all that for a while.

Andrew Huberman (2:55)

With the caveat that Elon represents the apex of being able to do multiple huge things simultaneously. And I don't think he has any peers in that regard. In fact, one of the best multi-billionaire investors from the Bay Area who may have gone to Stanford and been part of the PayPal early team has asked me, how is it that Elon does this? I'm like, I can't tell you.

Patrick O'Shaughnessy (3:19)

Like physiologically.

Andrew Huberman (3:20)

Physiologically, I mean, there are examples throughout the history of people who seem to require less sleep. They just have more energy and most people can get their energy up. There are a lot of healthy ways to do that now. And I think now we've undergone this huge shift whereby everyone understands you have to sleep eventually and you have to know your own sleep requirements. So to dilute oneself into thinking you only need four or five hours because Elon only needs four or five hours, that's ridiculous. An honest self-assessment about how much sleep one actually needs to perform well and perhaps best and what you can get by on. If you can't get that, that's an important thing to understand. But most people know, like for me, it's seven hours. I feel great. Eight probably puts me into the day a little bit groggy. Six, I can manage just fine. Five for one day or a sleepless night, I'm good. Two nights like that of four to zero hours of sleep and I'm cratered. And I think most people are similar. What's really changed is that we have effective healthy ways to build our energy up. We know to sleep, we can talk about exercise, caffeine. Some people are using nicotine. Yes, it's addictive. It raises blood pressure, but it does put people into that focused but relaxed mode. I always say if you really want the benefits of nicotine, don't use it very often. If you want the actual cognitive enhancing effects or the focus enhancing effects, then you have to not be a chronic user and then spike your system with nicotine at low amounts every once in a while. Setting Elon aside with the understanding that he represents that extreme in terms of energy and sleep requirements being very low. I think what's really happening now is people are hopefully doing this self-assessment. I would hope people would have an honest conversation about themselves and say, at this point in my life, with or without kids, at this stage of my company, at this stage of my career, whatever it is, at this age, how much sleep do I need in order to feel awesome, good enough or it's not enough? And I think most people know that. Okay, so that's step number one. The next one is something most people don't ever talk about, which is some people actually just have more energy.