#938 - Lawrence Krauss

Joe Rogan (0:02)

Four, three, two, live, Mr. Krauss, how are you, sir?

Lawrence Krauss (0:06)

Great, great to be here.

Joe Rogan (0:08)

I have been enjoying your latest book, but I do have to tell you, I think you broke my brain with gauge symmetry. I had to go over that about 30 or 40 times, try to figure out what that means and how that works.

Lawrence Krauss (0:21)

Well, it's amazing you did, it breaks our brains. I put it in there in spite of the fact it's hard, that part is hard, but it is so central to the way we think about the world nowadays, so I thought, I gotta try and explain it. And I broke my own brain trying to think of ways to explain it, and I figured people wouldn't devote as much time as you did to doing it.

It's so subtle that even physicists have a hard time in some ways grasping the implications of it, but it is so central to the way we think about the universe, so I thought, if I don't include it for the inquiring mind like you, then I'd feel bad.

Joe Rogan (0:54)

It is so baffling.

Lawrence Krauss (0:56)

But you know what, it's one of the things that when I write books, I do most things for myself in a way. And in every book I write, I usually learn something. And always when you're explaining stuff, suddenly most teachers say the first time they understand anything is when they teach it.

And gauge symmetry, I'd never thought of really how to explain it, and I tried to explain to my editor, which was great because she didn't know any science and she kept not understanding it. And then I came up with this explanation of all these chess boards, which is still subtle, but I realized afterwards it was kind of neat because when I developed this explanation for gauge symmetry, I not only understood it in a new way, but I realized, gee, I now understood physically if I'd had this explanation before, I could have predicted this Higgs mechanism and all the things I only see mathematically all come out of the picture I gave. So I loved that. It's a new way for me to think about the world that I didn't before.

Joe Rogan (1:48)

Well, most of what you guys do is almost like another language to someone like myself. And what this seems to be, this gauge symmetry seems to be is like a very complicated word in an alien language.

Lawrence Krauss (2:01)

Yeah, everything, it is. But nevertheless, it's so central. If you can picture the fact that it's fundamental to nature, and therefore, if you really wanna understand nature, at some level, you gotta grapple with it.

We're stuck with the world the way it is. It'd be great if it was a lot easier.

Joe Rogan (2:21)

But would it be? Because I think that's one of the more fascinating things about it, is that it's so bizarre.

Lawrence Krauss (2:25)

Well, yeah, in fact, that's why it's The Greatest Story Ever Told So-Far, because it's bizarre, and the fact that it's bizarre, and we've come this far, is amazing. I mean, it's just amazing we could have come this far in a few hundred years, and it's kind of sad that people don't realize, because they get all stuck at all this myth and superstition, and the real world is so much more interesting.

Joe Rogan (2:45)

It is unbelievably fascinating when you delve into the world of quantum mechanics and quantum physics, and all these bizarre things that are happening far smaller than the eye can see, you realize it is kind of magic.

Lawrence Krauss (2:59)

Well, it seems like magic, but the fact that we get it at some level is remarkable. Because the other thing I find that makes it magic is when you realize that the world we experience is such an illusion, that the real world is so different.

And I love telling the story of how we got there, because you see, scientists are biased and prejudiced and they know where they're going, even when it's wrong.

But science can overcome those biases and prejudices and drag us kicking and streaming in the right direction. And that's why the story is neat, but it's also lately, I've been thinking in terms of politics, why it's also neat. Because we need that to cut through the crap that we're hearing about in Washington.

The same scientific methods of skeptical inquiry, of reliance on empirical evidence, of testing, of looking at many sources. All those things are so essential for the working of our democracy. But they're the same tools that have led us to, from just beginning to understand how balls fall when you let them go, to understanding the inner workings of atoms and nuclei and how the universe came to be and why we're here. I just find the story so wonderful that it's a shame more people don't appreciate it. And the best part is the so-far part to me, because every day the story gets better. I like that other Greatest Story, which was written by illiterate peasants 2,000 years ago and never changes because it was just as boring then as it is now and this one keeps changing and we're surprised every day.