#768: What Happens When Israelis and Palestinians Drink Ayahuasca Together?

SPEAKER_1 (0:01)

At this altitude, I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start shaking.

Sharon (0:06)

Can I answer your personal question?

Lior Roseman (0:12)

I'm a cybernetic organism living this year over a metal endoskeleton.

Tim Ferriss (0:24)

Hello, ladies and gentlemen, this is Tim Ferris. Welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferris Show. For this episode, I am doing something very different. I'm actually featuring a special episode from a brand new podcast called Altered States. And I listen to a lot of podcasts. I test out a lot of podcasts. I found this one to be particularly impressive. It's very well reported, very well researched, very well produced. Here's the teaser for the episode that you're about to hear. It's not a long one, but it is a very nuanced one, a very powerful one.

For the last couple of years, producer Shaina Shealy has been following Israeli and Palestinian peace activists who have been coming together to drink the psychedelic brew ayahuasca in an effort to heal their collective intergenerational trauma. It seemed to be helping them when suddenly the region erupts into chaos and violence. Shaina Shealy, as background, was a fellow from the Ferris-UC Berkeley Psychedelic Journalism Fellowship. That's how I actually heard about the podcast. The fellowship offers $10,000 reporting grants per year to journalists reporting in-depth print and audio stories on the science, policy, business and culture of this new era of psychedelics. It's been going for a few years now, and a lot of amazing pieces have come out of it. The fellowship is supported by my foundation, the Saisei Foundation. You can find that, saiseifoundation.org, if you want to see what types of projects and grants and so on we've made. It is made possible in collaboration with Michael Pollan, Malia Wollan and others at UC Berkeley. So thanks to the entire team over there. Altered States, the podcast, looks at how people are taking psychedelics, who has access to them. They actually have an amazing episode where they walk through in real-time someone's first experience with psilocybin, how they're regulated, who stands to profit, and what these substances might offer us as individuals and as a society. It's hosted by journalist Ariel Dumras, and you can find it wherever you find your podcasts. Now, the Peacekeepers episode from Altered States.

Ariel Dumras (2:26)

Welcome to Altered States. I'm Ariel Dumras. This week, we are traveling thousands of miles away from where I am in Oregon to the Middle East to hear about another psychedelic experiment. This one involves ayahuasca. Producer Shaina Shealy brings us this story.

So, Shaina, welcome. First off, I know some folks might be familiar with ayahuasca, but others have probably never heard of it. Tell me, what exactly is ayahuasca?

Shaina Shealy (2:55)

Yeah. So ayahuasca, people typically drink it as a sort of tea, and it's made out of a vine from South America, which is often brewed together with another plant. It's a type of shrub. And that shrub contains something called DMT, or dimethyltryptamine.

Ariel Dumras (3:11)

So what do we know about what ayahuasca does to the brain?

Shaina Shealy (3:15)

So usually about 30 minutes after drinking it, some people start having these hallucinations. Others have out-of-body experiences or euphoric feelings. There's often vomiting involved. For some people, there are visions. Researchers have found that ayahuasca can promote what's called neural plasticity, which is the brain's ability to adapt and build new connections. In this case, increased adaptability is thought to be able to help people heal from traumatic experiences.

Ariel Dumras (3:48)

A few years ago, you came across these peace activists who were using ayahuasca to heal. And eventually you started reporting on that story. So can you tell me more?

Shaina Shealy (3:58)

So these activists are Israeli and Palestinian, and they gathered to drink ayahuasca and attempt to heal trauma, both personal trauma and collective trauma. And I knew a bunch of them from previous reporting in the region, and I was really interested just in the links that these people went to, to build empathy. And then October 7th happened.

Suddenly, the work of healing was interrupted by this massive shockwave. And these activists sort of looked to the group and to one person in particular to help them navigate it all. That person was Palestinian peace and justice activist, Sami Awad.

Ariel Dumras (4:42)

And that's why your story starts with Sami, in his home in late summer 2023

Shaina Shealy (5:01)

In Sami Awad's kitchen near the Palestinian city of Bethlehem, a small group of people are gathered around a table. A handful of Israelis, a woman from Brazil, one guy from Ramallah. They're all sitting there, around plates of eggs and za'atar, watermelon, balls of cured labneh and olive oil. They were laughing, eating breakfast. Sami describes his home as sort of an oasis for Israeli and Palestinian activists from all over. It's where they can be together and find refuge from the harsh reality of living under forced separation. Sami's home office is filled with hundreds of books on meditation, yoga, psychedelic medicine, healing. He's in his 50s and he's been working in the world of peace building for over 25 years.