#69 Treating Epilepsy With the Ketogenic Diet - Michel Lundell from Ketonix

Michel Lundell (0:00)

My mind was changing from one task to another all the time. It was very hard to concentrate on one thing. It was very hard to visualize things in my brain. For example, I tried to visualize a Rubik's Cube revolving in the air, and I couldn't.

When they tried this ketogenic diet, most of the kids didn't get any more seizures, and a lot of kids even could stop the diet after a year or two. How can I know that my lifestyle is... This lifestyle is better than the other lifestyle.

SPEAKER_2 (0:36)

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Siim Land (0:39)

Body, mind, empowerment.

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Siim Land (0:47)

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Siim Land (0:52)

Welcome to the Body, Mind, Empowerment Podcast. I'm a host, Siim Lund, and today our guest is Michel Lundell. Michel is the founder and CEO of Ketonix, which is the leading ketone breath analyzing device in the world.

He's treating his own epilepsy with the ketogenic diet, and he's innovating the science of ketosis by helping people understand this mysterious metabolic state. Michel, welcome to the show.

Michel Lundell (1:17)

Thank you very much, Siim.

Siim Land (1:19)

I'm glad to have you here. And I've heard about measuring breath ketones and your company, Ketonix. But at first, I thought it was based in the States, but then I realized that you're actually from Sweden, which is quite near where I live.

And what's the state of ketogenic dieting in Sweden right now?

Michel Lundell (1:41)

It's on the rise. It's getting more and more popular.

So, we hope that more and more doctors and clinics will adopt this sort of treatment for different illnesses as an option to medication.

Siim Land (2:09)

I've heard that actually the Swedish dietary recommendations are more low carb than others. Am I right? Or are you still like based on whole grains and a lot of carbohydrates?

Michel Lundell (2:24)

Yeah, there is a recommendation to actually treat obesity with a low carb diet.

But there is still a lot of keyhole marking and low fat food and people. Well, it's complicated. I think the real breakthrough will be when people in white coats and with a stethoscope tells them to, you should try this.

Siim Land (2:58)

Yeah, that's definitely the medical authorities, they play a huge role in what people actually gonna take into advice. But what got you, you yourself, what made you start the Keto diet?

Michel Lundell (3:10)

I got epilepsy and I got medication, anti-seizure medication, which is also the same as bipolar medication and it was strong. And after they increased, the 10-fold doubled the dose for me, the side effects were severe.

I got angry, I got short-tempered, I was not a pleasant person to be around. My personality changed. So my family said that you have to do something, otherwise you have to move. They couldn't live with me if I was shouting at the kids.

I was not a pleasant person to be around. So I had to find an alternative. That's when I found a study from the 1920s with kids having epilepsy, severe epilepsy.

Their epilepsy could not be medicated or they couldn't operate it. So they had to find something else. And when they tried this ketogenic diet, most of the kids didn't get any more seizures. And a lot of kids even could stop the diet after a year or two, and still not having any seizures. And that is from a state where they couldn't stop the seizures. They had a lot of seizures every day. From that state to two years later, not having any diet at all, they had a normal diet and still be without any... Yeah, so I spoke with my neurologist and said, I want to try this because the situation at home is not good and I don't want to eat more medication. So he actually said, okay, I investigate it. And he did and came back and said, the efficacy of the diet and the medication is the same. But side effects are, of course, much better with the diet. So he gave me a go ahead, but you have to prove that you're in ketosis. So I had a month to prove that I was in ketosis. So I bought blood test strips, urine strips, and I peed on the strips. I measured my blood and of course I got confused because it's two different measures.

But anyway, I was in ketosis when I got to the hospital and I asked what level should I be in? And they couldn't say. That was strange because one of the doctors had made some research about this, but they couldn't say which level of ketosis I should be in. And that was blood ketones. And it took me about maybe three years now to actually understand why they couldn't say that you have to be in more than 2.5 or whatever millimolar per liter in blood ketones, because blood ketones is such a small amount of energy in your body, so it can be used at any time. If you read on a package of exogenous ketones, it says just that on the back side, this is energy that your whole body can use at any time. And the amount of 3 millimolar per liter is actually only 10 calories. So if you take your bike and go to your home or to work, you might have used your blood ketones. So that ketone is not a very good measure according to me. So what I did was that I was investigating, can't you measure this in another way?