#595 Jason Flom with Kristine Bunch

Jason Flom (0:00)

What you're about to hear is an update to an episode we recorded with Kristine Bunch in 2020 Kristine spent 17 long miserable years in prison after she was wrongfully convicted of setting a fire that killed her three-year-old son, Anthony, a conviction that was based on junk fire science and evidence that was later shown to be both and misleading. Now, since getting out, Kristine has turned tragedy into triumph. She's devoted her life to making sure that other innocent people don't suffer the same way that she did. She's been advocating for compensation for exonerees, she's helped to train law enforcement, she's supported people coming home from prison, and she's worked alongside innocence organizations across the country. And now, she's taking that word even further.

Earlier this year, Kristine became the first effort director of the Indiana Innocence Project, an organization that she actually helped create. That's right, the same woman who once had to fight for almost two decades to convince the justice system of her own actual innocence, is now leading an organization dedicated to finding innocent people still behind bars, bringing them home, and helping them to rebuild their lives. A true hero's journey. And now, here's my conversation with Kristine Bunch.

Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flom. That's me, of course, and today, you're going to hear a story that's as heartbreaking and tragic as it was preventable. And it's a remarkable look inside the systemic flaws, as well as human errors that lead to wrongful convictions. And in this particular case, we're going to be telling the story and hearing the story of one of my absolute favorite human beings, a personal hero of mine who is doing amazing, amazing things in the world right now, today, and every day. And so I am thrilled and honored to have with us on the show today, Kristine Bunch.

Kristine Bunch (2:12)

Thank you so much. I'm happy to be here.

Jason Flom (2:14)

And with Kristine is someone whose name you'll probably recognize, Ron Safer. Ron is a former US attorney, turned corporate lawyer, turned justice fighter. And you'll recognize him because he was a huge part of the exoneration of Julie Ray, an episode that I'll never forget. And I hope if you haven't heard it, that you'll go back and take a listen. Anyway, Ron, welcome back.

Ron Safer (2:38)

My pleasure to be here. Thank you, Jason.

Jason Flom (2:40)

So let's get right into it. Kristine, you grew up in Indiana, right?

Kristine Bunch (2:45)

I did.

Things took a crazy turn when my parents divorced. But for the most part, I was happy and it was good.

Jason Flom (2:53)

Now, at the time of this unimaginable tragedy, you were just a young mother living in a trailer, working hard, going to school, just starting your life. Just 21 years old, right?

Kristine Bunch (3:06)

That's correct. I was working and going to school. And I had a beautiful three-year-old son named Tony.

Jason Flom (3:13)

And then the worst nightmare that any parent can possibly have or wake up to in a cold sweat and some of us probably have had that experience, but it actually happened to you. And Ron, can you tell us about that awful morning of June 30th, 1995?

Ron Safer (3:30)

What happened was Kristine and Tony had gone to sleep together on a couch in the living room area of the trailer. Before Kristine woke up, Tony had moved to the front room, which was a separate room from the living room.

Kristine awoke to a sound and a small fire.

She was disoriented, but she saw the small fire and she tried to put it out with a pillow and couldn't do that. So she tried to smother the fire with a blanket and that didn't work either. Carbon monoxide is intoxicating. Kristine was undoubtedly affected by this carbon monoxide. She's trying to put out the fire. She can't find the fire extinguisher. She knows where the fire extinguisher is. She can't find it. So by that time, the fire had grown into a wall between her and Tony and she could not get to him. So she frantically went out of the trailer, tried to get help and then tried to break the window into the front room so that she could get to Tony. But it was too late and Tony had perished.

Jason Flom (4:57)

It's impossible to even conceive of the horror and the panic in a time like that, even if you didn't have kids, like waking up to a fire. Kristine, what are your memories of that awful night now 25 years ago?

Kristine Bunch (5:13)

I think the thing that sits with me the most is it was just normal. I came home from school and I got Tony from the babysitter and we went home and we cooked and I think we watched some TV and did some laundry and we fell asleep. I'd read him a story and he wasn't feeling really well. We fell asleep on the couch under the air conditioner.