#512 Why Smart and Disciplined People Still Can't Stop Overeating - Charles Duhigg

Charles Duhigg (0:00)

If I eat snacks today, I'm reinforcing this habit loop associated with snacks in my head, and it's going to be so much easier to eat snacks the next time. And I don't want to eat snacks. Something important happened. It opens up this window, a habit window, where your habits become more malleable. They can change more easily. If you take advantage of that window, and that window eventually closes, right? It's not open forever, then you still keep the weight off. You still keep the healthy habits that you developed.

Siim Land (0:27)

Charles, welcome to the show.

Charles Duhigg (0:29)

Thanks for having me on.

Siim Land (0:30)

Yeah, I'm excited to have you on the podcast, because I read your book, which is, I think, one of the most known habit books about like 10 years ago. So yeah, I'm excited and honored to have you on my podcast now.

So you also actually reached out about a very interesting new kind of area of research, which is GLP-1s and habit formation. So you described this idea of how GLP-1s, not only affect weight loss, but they also have quite interesting effects on the brain chemistry and habit formation. So yeah, I'm excited to delve into this topic. So yeah, maybe we can start off with what are some of the interesting things that you've researched about this.

Charles Duhigg (1:14)

Sure. So I started using a GLP-1 about two years ago, and I thought it was great. I really enjoyed being on it. I started losing some weight. I thought that was really, really helpful.

And then I started noticing that the habits in my life were changing because I was using the GLP-1.

Eating habits, yes, but also like exercise became easier. I stopped drinking alcohol. I just had no taste for it anymore. And so I became really interested in trying to understand what's going on here. Like why is this GLP-1 having such an important, such a big impact on my life? And we know that it's not just me, right? There's people who are suffering from alcoholism or gambling addiction, and they find that when they start on the GLP-1, all of a sudden those cravings diminish. And so I started looking around for people who are doing research, and I found this company, Noom, that I'm now working with.

Noom, for anyone who's not aware, is this app that you can download on your phone. More importantly, the app is this thing that's designed to help you recognize and change your habits, particularly habits around food consumption. And what their research suggested is that when you start using a GLP-1, something important happens that we can go into the details of. But what it does is it opens up this window, a habit window, where your habits become more malleable. They can change more easily. And if you take advantage of that window, and that window eventually closes, right? It's not open forever. But if you take advantage of that window, and you change your basic consumption habits, then when you discontinue the medication, you still keep the weight off. You still keep the healthy habits that you developed. And I thought that was really, really fascinating. So I told New Way, I wanted to work with them to understand more about this and help their research.

And it's been a great relationship. And we've learned a lot about how habits function within our brains by using GLP-1 as a variable that changes things.

Siim Land (3:20)

Yeah, I mean, people know that GLP-1s are very effective at weight loss. And I guess the basic understanding of how it works is that it suppresses appetite. It's like an diabetes medication historically, but yeah, it like reduces your appetite. But what you also alluded to is that it just reduces this food noise, or you're just less interested in different kinds of activities.

Charles Duhigg (3:48)

And it's important to note, it's not that it necessarily represses your appetite. That actually ends up happening because your stomach shrinks, and so as a result, you're just less hungry. But what it actually does is it quiets what you mentioned, that food noise in people's heads. It seems to somehow moderate or remove the cravings that all of us feel throughout the day on a lot of various things.

You know, and sometimes, like for me example, I did not even understand that this food noise was inside my head until I started the GLP-1. Like I wasn't aware of the food noise. I would just sit down at dinner and there'd be at a restaurant a basket of fries on the table, and I wouldn't be hungry, and I didn't want any fries, but I would just reach over and start eating them, right? Without even thinking about it. And that's the food noise. The food noise is this thing that's kind of creating this slight craving anytime you see food that you know is tasty, that you want to eat it.