402. The Norman Conquests: The Real Story of 1066 (Part 2)

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Anita Anand (0:41)

Hello, and welcome to Empire with me, Anita Anand.

William Dalrymple (0:44)

And me, William Dalrymple. And joining us for the next episode is the historian who has probably done more than anyone else to put 1066 back in the hands of general readers.

The great Marc Morris, author of The Anglo-Saxons and The Norman Conquest, but also biographer of later English kings like King John and Edward I. Marc, welcome to Empire. Very nice to meet you.

Marc Morris (1:05)

Thank you very much for inviting me.

Anita Anand (1:07)

Marc, with all the huge crowds going to see it, for those who think they're looking at a gospel truth account of what happened in 1066, you would sound a note of caution, wouldn't you?

Marc Morris (1:21)

Yes. I think most people would realize they're being told one version of a story. You know, to send any historical sources to some extent propaganda with a small p.

I think the thing with the biotapestry that people can run away with the idea of if they are not corrected is that this is our only source, or perhaps even the most important source for 1066, when it is just one of dozens of sources. The biotapestry has certain obvious strengths. Most obviously, it's a pictorial source without compare. So the biotapestry gives us loads of stuff, incidental stuff for the most part, that other sources, written sources, do not. So it tells us about haircuts and clothes and facial hair. You know, in some sense, quite peripheral things, but it's still nice to have them.

William Dalrymple (2:02)

Mustaches.

Marc Morris (2:03)

Mustaches, whether William had a mustache or Harold had a mustache. This crucial information. So it is absolutely unique in that it gives us a visual window onto that lost world. But at the same time, we have lots of other very rich, written sources, biographies of the Godwinsons, a biography of William the Conqueror, year by year, blow by blow, accounts of the action written by well-informed monks. So, biotapestry, hugely important, but only one source for this crucial period.

William Dalrymple (2:33)

Now, Marc, you just mentioned there the name Godwinson, and this is going to be one of the crucial elements of the story today. Tell us who Godwin was and who his sons were.

Marc Morris (2:44)

Godwin, he comes from nowhere at the start of the 11th century. So we don't know for certain who his father was. So he starts his career as a powerful fane, which is to say, the century or so later, you'd be calling him a knight. Pre-Conquest, he's a fane. So he's a powerful landowner, but not of the highest rank, sort of middling ranks. And by dint of serving King Cnut, who is the chap who invades England 50 years before the Norman Conquest in 1016, he rises to the very top ranks of English society. So he's made Earl of Wessex, which basically means he's in charge of what had been the former kingdom of Wessex. And he's Cnut's right-hand man. So King Cnut, once he's taken over in 1016, he soon after becomes King of Denmark, and then he's invading other Scandinavian countries. So he has a Scandinavian empire to attend to. And a lot of the time, he's not in England. So he needs a regent, if you like, to rule England for him. And that man is Godwin.

William Dalrymple (3:42)

And does he side with the Viking element of Cnut's entourage, or is he sympathetic to the English?

Marc Morris (3:50)

I think in order to get on with Cnut, you have to be sympathetic to the Scandinavian side of things. So whilst in the main text that we have about Godwin and his sons in the background, he comes across as entirely sympathetic and a sort of champion of English liberty and English causes. If you wanted to put it in very anti-Godwin terms, to begin with, he is a Scandinavian collaborator. So he's someone who, after Cnut takes over, left right and centre people are having their heads chopped off for not collaborating with Cnut. But Godwin in advance has been on Cnut's side. So he's, if you like, you know, more sympathetically, he sees which ways the wind is blowing after sort of 20 years of Viking assaults on England. He sees that the House of Wessex is running out of steam and credibility. And so he sides with the winners.