36. How Rahm Emanuel Would Run the World

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Courage.

**Steven Levitt** (0:31)
I learned it from my adoptive mom.

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Hold my hand. You hold my hand.

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You can't imagine the reward.

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Brought to you by AdoptUSkids, the US Department of Health and Human Services, and the Ad Council.

**Steven Levitt** (0:49)
Today we go back to the beginning, my first guest, Rahm Emanuel, the episode that started it all.
When I sat down with Rahm on March 2nd, 2020, and again one month later, the COVID pandemic was just getting going. We actually met in person that first time, the only in-person interview I've done. We didn't have a name for the show, the name People I Mostly Admire came later. We didn't even really have a concept. I just knew I wanted to talk to smart, interesting people. So we taped this episode with Rahm, we released it into the Freakonomics Radio feed. People seemed to like it, and People I Mostly Admire was born.

**SPEAKER_5** (1:24)
Welcome to People I Mostly Admire with Steve Levitt.

**Steven Levitt** (1:32)
If you're a regular listener hearing this episode, you'll notice that the format of the show has changed a lot over time. One thing we figured out right away is that I am terrible reading from a script. The episode you're about to hear begins with me reading a long biography about Rahm. How hard could that be? Well, for me, very hard. It took roughly 20 takes to get to something I thought sounded decent, and Dubner heard it and said, God, that's awful. You must be able to do better than that. So roughly 40 tries later, I produced What You'll Hear Below, and it's still hopelessly, embarrassingly bad. So have a good laugh at my expense, and be glad that we banished long scriptive segments from the podcast.
I'm fascinated by unconventional people, probably because I'm so weird myself.
I especially like unconventional people, who also happen to be really smart. I find that if I can spend an hour talking with someone like that, it often completely reshapes the way I see the world. But there's a problem. It's hard to find people like that, and even harder to get them to talk to me once I found them. Usually, they've got something much more important to do.
So I hatched a plan. What if I start a podcast? Maybe I could convince some of those folks, who otherwise wouldn't talk to me, to talk to me. So far, I would say the plan is working pretty well. Today's guest, Rahm Emanuel, is the first person I approached for the podcast, and I can guarantee you, he would not have spent two hours over the course of two days talking with me absent this podcast.
Typically, I have zero interest in politics. I don't know much about political science, and it seems like politicians mostly rehash the same arguments every day, with little desire to find real answers. But I was eager to talk with Rahm because I just finished reading his fascinating book, The Nation-City, Why Mayors Are Now Running the World. It's full of deep insights, and that's no surprise since he has a reputation for being one of the smartest people in politics. Presidents Clinton and Obama both relied heavily on his advice. Because of his work during the Obama administration, Rahm's name became permanently associated with the phrase, never let a good crisis go to waste. He also spent three terms as a congressman from Illinois, and two terms as mayor of Chicago.
He comes from a family of overachievers. His older brother Ezekiel is a leading bioethicist and advised the Obama administration on health care reform. His younger brother Ari is at the top of William Morris Endeavor, one of the biggest talent agencies in the world. Of the brothers, Rahm may have the biggest reputation for being a foul-mouthed, fearless, ruthless maniac. As a teenager working at Arby's, Rahm had an on-the-job accident that took off half of the middle finger on his right hand. The story goes that when the doctor unwrapped Rahm's hand after surgery, he flicked everyone off and said from now on, he'd have to give people the middle finger twice to have the desired effect.