30 Years Living with Chimps, with John Mitani | Episode 55

John Mitani (0:04)

People will probably know that chimpanzees hunt and eat meat. But the surprising thing that they often do with the meat once they obtain it is turn around and share it with each other. You know, why do that? Why not keep the entire carcass for yourself? Especially given the fact that meat is a scarce resource, you know, something that's clearly prized by the chimpanzees.

They all seem to crave this. It's not something they eat every day. And it's really hard to capture a monkey.

And sometimes dangerous because the monkeys just won't sit up in the tree and wait to be taken and eaten. And now they fight back.

Jerry Ellis (0:50)

So, why share me? In fact, why share anything? What's in it for me? Future favors, political motivations, ego? Or could there be something even more, like chimp altruism? Is that too far-fetched? Well, one man will tell you that after 30 years of research, we have far more questions than we have answers when it comes to chimps. Few people have spent as much time with wild chimpanzees as my next guest, John Mitani.

Dr. Mitani is a primate behavioral ecologist at the University of Michigan.

He's been exploring the social behavior and communication in two communities of wild chimpanzees, in the forest of Ngungu, Senuganda's Kabali National Park. Speaking with John is like opening a window into an unseen world so close, yet few of us ever get to look in. Hi, I'm Jerry Ellis, and welcome to Talking Apes. One of the great joys of being the host of Talking Apes is sharing with you the amazing individuals I get to speak to and sharing their lives, folks that might not ever appear on your radar. John's one of those amazing individuals.

We first had a chance to talk to John at the end of season two on episode 43 as part of our special four-part series on the making of Chimp Empire, the extraordinary Netflix series about chimpanzees. If you haven't seen it, it's definitely worth checking out, and we'll put a link in the blog that accompanies this podcast. Believe me, you'll never think of chimps or us in quite the same way. And John was a scientific consultant on that series. But beyond stories of chimp behavior, like meat hunting and sharing, I was excited to talk to John about his three decades at Kivali and reflect on what comes with spending so much time at a single study site studying a single species so like us. I've often said on this podcast, that it's not the 98% that we share with other great apes that fascinates me. But what lies in that 2%? Well, John's one of the few people who can open that window just wide enough for all of us to peer in to that mysterious couple of percent. And I was also fascinated to talk to John about his decades with all the great apes and his reflection on the complexities of ape conservation, the impact of ecotourism, research, poaching, habitat loss, human population explosion, and disease. And all of that against a backdrop of rapidly changing climate dynamics.

What does it mean to save a species?

John Mitani (3:23)

I sometimes think about what I would have done if I were Dawn Fossey, watching her mound girl is getting poached, left and right and dying. I'm not sure what I would have done, but I'm sure I would have become much more involved in protecting these animals than I've done in the past.

Jerry Ellis (3:44)

Today, we still struggle searching for answers. How do we use the conservation tools that we have created for positive change? I'll get John's thoughts on that and a lot more. But before we jump into my conversation with John Mitani, I wanted to say thank you again for joining me on this episode of Talking Apes, and take just a minute to ask for your support.

We are just a couple of weeks away from World Chimpanzee Day on July 14th, and that means the end of our season three here on Talking Apes. The last three years had been brilliant, and I am deeply honored to have had conversations with some truly amazing folks, thoughtful, kind, curious, generous people that I'm so proud to say I share this world of apes with.

After three years, I've also learned we can't produce Talking Apes without your help and support. As a program of non-profit Globio, your support makes this podcast happen.

So I'm not asking for five or 500 or $5,000. Only you know what you can give. I'm just asking you to let us know that you value this podcast, give what you can, and drop us a note of support. And with that support, we'll find a way to keep this podcast growing in exciting new ways. I am so excited about the upcoming season four. It's just around the corner in September of 2024 And we have so many great guests lined up. So to support Talking Apes and kick off season four with a great start, I'd ask you to visit our website at talkingapes.org and consider a donation. Thank you again for all of the support and the sharing these past three years. And now I'm delighted to welcome back the Talking Apes, Dr. John Mitani.