#2567 - Mariana van Zeller

Joe Rogan (0:01)

Joe Rogan Podcast, checking out The Joe Rogan Experience.

Jamie (0:06)

Trained by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day. Good to see you. Hi, Joe.

SPEAKER_3 (0:15)

So good to see you too.

Joe Rogan (0:16)

Every time I watch one of your new programs, I get anxiety. I'm like, please don't die. Don't get hurt. What are you doing?

Mariana van Zeller (0:23)

This one was a walk in the park, though.

Joe Rogan (0:25)

It kind of is a walk in the park, but not really. Because you went to fucking Africa to meet scammers.

Mariana van Zeller (0:32)

To confront my scammer.

Joe Rogan (0:35)

So your new show is all about romance scams. And I was aware of these because I watched a show a long time ago about this poor, lonely man who kept getting scammed.

He thought that there was this woman and he was in contact with her and he flew to Europe to meet her twice. And both times she came up with some reason why she couldn't be there. Some emergency came up and this guy had given her hundreds of thousands of dollars and drained his account and his daughter was so sad. She's like, I keep trying to tell him but he won't listen. And you see these poor people that are so vulnerable. They're just, they're lonely and they really believe.

Mariana van Zeller (1:18)

They really, really believe. I think the loneliness epidemic is a huge part of this, quite frankly.

SPEAKER_3 (1:23)

It's a huge issue in this world.

Joe Rogan (1:25)

A huge issue in our country, in particular, you know. There's like a disconnect with family in our country, and there's, like, people don't have, like, real community anymore.

It's very weird.

Mariana van Zeller (1:39)

It is. And I think it's, yeah, it's absolutely one of the biggest reasons why scams are rampant these days. I mean, particularly romance scams. Yeah. 100%, yeah.

Joe Rogan (1:49)

Well, it's, you're preying on the saddest people. That's what's really, it's like, it's one thing if you're scamming some psycho fucking fraud guy who's doing stock market bullshit, you know what I mean? Or, like, and you scam them.

Mariana van Zeller (2:06)

Yeah.

Joe Rogan (2:06)

It's like you're scamming a scammer.

Mariana van Zeller (2:07)

Yeah. It's true, but I think one of the problems we have when we talk about scams is this idea that we think it's a certain type of more gullible person or more naive or perhaps more foolish.

And I think that is wrong because I think what these scammers are so good at doing is that they prey on emotions that we all share, you know, love and trust and sometimes greed as well.

And the real reason or the main reason I wanted to do this film was because of that, because I d come back and I d tell friends and family stories about these victims because I ve reported on scams before extensively. And it was always, but how could they do that? Why would you give money to a stranger? How could they be so silly and so stupid? And that really annoyed me because why are we focusing on the response of the victim instead of actually understanding the actions of the scammers themselves? Because they are very, very good at what they do. So that was the idea behind, okay, I'm going to place myself at the center of all scams, Super Scam Me, and create a persona and put myself in dating websites and online platforms and see what happens. And it happened very fast.

SPEAKER_3 (3:25)

Do you think they're good at it?

Mariana van Zeller (3:27)

I think some are really good at it.

Joe Rogan (3:28)

The guy that was doing it with you, did you think?

Mariana van Zeller (3:30)

Mine, no. No. I didn't get the best scammer out there.

SPEAKER_3 (3:34)

I'll just say that. Are there better ones?

Mariana van Zeller (3:36)

There are 100% better ones. I think the one that was scamming Leslie was definitely better than mine.

Joe Rogan (3:42)

Is that the one who was pretending he was John Bon Jovi?

Mariana van Zeller (3:43)

Bon Jovi, yes. Again.

Again. I know, but that's the thing. You tell that story and you think this guy shows up on her DM and says, hey, I'm John Bon Jovi. Give me money. That's not how it went, right? She liked an account. So it was funny because it was in the middle of me doing Super Scam Me that I get a message from Leslie. And I get dozens of these messages every week because I've done a lot of reporting on this. People think I'm sort of like the 911 for scams. And it was right in the middle of the project. I get a message from her and it was that, look, I've been talking to a guy for almost a year. I initially thought he was John Bon Jovi. I'm not so sure anymore. And of course, the response is, wait, what did you really think you were talking to John Bon Jovi? But then you listen to the story and then you actually meet this person. Yeah. And it is much more nuanced than that. She liked an Instagram account. It was brand new on Instagram.