#2411 - Gavin de Becker

Gavin de Becker (0:03)

The Joe Rogan Experience.

Joe Rogan (0:06)

Trained by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

Gavin de Becker (0:12)

How are you, sir? I'm well, thank you very much. Great to see you, as always. Good to see you, too.

Joe Rogan (0:16)

You got a bunch of notes. You got a lot of things to talk about. Yes. We were starting to talk outside. We were like, hold this, hold these thoughts. Let's bring them in here.

Gavin de Becker (0:24)

Well, here's where I am. As a criminologist, I take a different approach to things. I'm not obviously a doctor or a scientist, thankfully. And as a criminologist, you get a view of the world that's quite interesting, and so I took a deep dive into pharma. But I want to put that off for a second, because I know you know a lot of these CIA operations, like Paperclip, where we bring over people who are working on bioweapons from Japan and from Germany, and we don't prosecute them, and we use them to be the beginning of the US bioweapons program.

And I know you know MKUltra and Mockingbird, but do you know the one called Project Gladio?

Joe Rogan (1:03)

No, I do not.

Gavin de Becker (1:05)

Put your seatbelt on, because this one just tops it all. So this was World War II ends, and the OSS, which was the CIA at the time, decides to leave behind, rather than take everybody home, all the American soldiers, they're going to leave behind a bunch of them, and you guys, hide your weapons, hide your rifles, secrete all the grenades and ammunition and put it in bunkers, and just sit tight until we have some ideas of things you ought to do. So eventually, a few hundred of them stay behind, and they are going to do things in Europe to stop communism, to stop socialism, to fight the Soviets, et cetera. But what do they actually end up doing is terroristic incidents against our allies. They blow up a train station in Bologna, 285 people injured, 85 people killed, done and funded and operated by our CIA. They do the 1989 assassination of a guy who's a journalist, who's writing about this. They shoot him twice in the head. They do another bombing, 17 people killed. Another one, Oktoberfest in Germany, not Italy, 17 people killed.

Joe Rogan (2:11)

Why?

Gavin de Becker (2:12)

Because they see that certain candidates are doing well and might become prime ministers, for example, or important legislators. So when you have a big giant terrorist incident done in some train station, for example, that moves the public toward a more right-leaning government or a more totalitarian government that CIA can deal with and away from anything where communism can happen. There's the assassination of Aldo Moro. He was a former prime minister, five bodyguards. They're all killed. He's kidnapped. A few weeks later, he's shot in the head and put in the trunk of a car. That was done by Project Gladio. In other words, these things were done by the United States, two of our supposed allies. And hundreds of these leave-behinds operated eventually a 20,000-person army all over Europe. Now, I don't expect anybody to believe a word of it. You got to go to Wikipedia and put in G-L-A-D-I-O. It's just one D. And you'll see that this insanity is true. The punchline on it for me, the one that really blows it out of the water, is that it ended in 1990

Joe Rogan (3:20)

Whoa.

Gavin de Becker (3:21)

Yeah. And George Bush was president and he'd been former director of CIA, of course. And he denies it like crazy, but eventually an Italian prime minister really goes to the mat on it. And it becomes so well established that the US government funded and managed these operations, blowing up regular citizens in Europe, that a lot of the people who were imprisoned for them, for those incidents, terrorists, you know, terrorist groups, etc., were released on the defense that it was actually done by CIA.

I did tell you to put your seatbelt on.

Joe Rogan (3:59)

Oh, my God. Is that just like an idea that starts off as a precautionary measure that just got completely out of hand because there was no oversight?

Gavin de Becker (4:11)

Yeah, no oversight is the key to a bunch of stuff I want to talk about today because when governments, big centralized governments and other power centers become, you know, without oversight, and where does oversight come from? It comes from us, the public, having to be skeptical. And if the public is not skeptical, if they'll buy a story like, oh, a terrible terrorist group assassinated this guy Aldo Moro, how terrible, and they'll buy the story with no skepticism because that's what we're told, then there will be no oversight and power centers. It's no surprise, you know, we could talk about every country on earth. I'm not, you know, I happen to love America, but I'm not saying it's just America. It's, you know, this is the nature of espionage and the nature of war. But I want to answer your question about, is it just because of no oversight? The United States doesn't end wars very often. For example, World War II ends and you're all excited about it and you're mounting things and you're doing all this stuff. And then it ends and everybody's like, hey, but we were really into this thing. And so we don't let them end. We leave 300,000 troops in Germany, 300,000 troops in Japan, hundreds of thousands of troops in South Korea. Why don't we bring these people home?