2045: The Joy of Money (Yes, Joy.)

Farnoosh Torabi (0:00)

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SPEAKER_2 (0:48)

Looking for ways to save on gas or double your double coupons? Sorry, you're in the wrong place.

Carrie Joy Grimes (1:01)

People worry that they're selfish. It's like, well, then don't be selfish.

It's okay. You can make the choices that aren't selfish. You're not going to steal from your family. You're not going to do stuff that harms another person. There's no shame in being joyful about money, the joy about the things that money can bring you. The joy of money is about learning how to be happy.

Farnoosh Torabi (1:23)

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to So Money. Lately, I've been thinking a lot about how many of us feel like we're failing at money. It's not because we're irresponsible or lazy, but because the rules are harder now. The economy feels shakier and the pressure to figure it all out is just relentless.

My guest today says one of the biggest problems isn't just what's happening in our bank accounts, it's the story that we carry around about ourselves, and it's this belief that we are bad at money, that we somehow missed our chance, that financial security is for other people. And honestly, I think a lot of us might hear ourselves in this conversation. We're joined by Carrie Joy Grimes. She's a former union organizer who spent years helping workers fight for better wages and benefits, while also trying to untangle her own complicated relationship with money, which included debt, shame, financial anxiety, you name it. In our conversation, we talk about why so many women particularly still avoid taking ownership of their money, how to rebuild confidence after financial mistakes, whether home ownership still makes sense, and how to separate what society tells us should make us happy from what actually does. We also talk about the inspiration behind her new book. It's called The Joy of Money, how to do more with and feel better about your money, no matter how much you have, and why Grimes believes financial security is not just about numbers, it's about feeling safer and freer and more in control of your life.

Here we go.

Carrie Joy Grimes, welcome to So Money.

Carrie Joy Grimes (2:56)

Thank you, Farnoosh. I am so happy to be here. I have been reading your books and your columns and watching you for a long time, and I'm just really, really glad to have the chance to talk.

Farnoosh Torabi (3:05)

Well, that's so sweet of you to say. Well, I'm really thrilled for your work. Your book is out, coming out, The Joy of Money.

And as we were chatting before we were recording, you have such an elevated, a light spirit. I love that about you. I think the personal finance world needs that now more than ever. Are you finding that, that you're coming out with this book and your platform, your star is rising at a time when people are really down about their money and for new reasons in some ways, right? Like although the economy is cyclical and I don't think what we're experiencing is historically at a low point, but it is a tough time. And so to be going out in the world with a book called The Joy of Money, what are you running up against mostly?

Carrie Joy Grimes (3:53)

Oh, yeah.

You know, I think that it's a time when people, I'm seeing, I assume you're seeing this too, but I'm seeing a lot more fear, anxiety, worry, concern. And it's, in some cases, I mean, I think we all know wages have not kept pace with health care costs, education costs, childcare costs, housing costs. TVs are cheaper than they've ever been, you can't really eat a TV or sleep in a TV, you know. And so I think that people are understandably really worried about how the future looks. And that's more what I run up against. I'd be curious what you have to say. But people are like, I don't know how to do it in this economy. It feels harder and more mysterious than it ever has been. Not just because it's so volatile, it's up and down and all over the place, but also because it feels like it's not going, that's not going to end or that it's not figure outable. And so I wrote the book, The Joy of Money. If you're Gen X or older, you know, there is a few other Joy ofs that I'm kind of referencing in the past. But even more than that, I wrote it and I called it that because I do think that there is a path to more people having that good life with their money, even in these volatile times. And in this moment in particular, I think I needed that. I wanted my kid to have that. She's 19 and she's becoming an adult person. And I wanted to make sure that everybody who wanted it knew that there is a path for them too.