200GW Hiding in Grid, Sodium Batteries 10x Cheaper, Wave-Powered Datacenters w/ Ramez Naam | EP #280

**Alexander Wissner-Gross** (0:00)
In the US.,

**Ramez Naam** (0:01)
if you put in a request for hundreds of megawatts of power, feels like it is in it today, good luck getting that power before 2031 That's the situation that we have today.
So new technologies like sodium ion batteries could drop the cost of batteries by a factor of 10 We already have the very first solar plus battery base load power plants, and they're affordable. Batteries are plunging in cost and are going to drop by 10x ultimately.

**Peter Diamandis** (0:32)
Do you believe that thesis that solar in the long term is going to dominate beyond everything else?

**Ramez Naam** (0:38)
The reality is, look, everybody's heard Elon talking about space-based data centers. So 10 gigawatts a year is like five or six launches of starship a day.

**Salim Ismail** (0:48)
Unless we hit that exponential absolutely full on and go right down that path, this looks prohibitive for 15, 20 years?

**Ramez Naam** (0:56)
The biggest unlock that we cannot predict of AI and power will be.

**Dave Blundin** (1:04)
Now, that's the Moonshot, ladies and gentlemen.

**Peter Diamandis** (1:09)
Everybody, welcome to Moonshots, another episode on the front line of Singularity. We're living during the most extraordinary time ever. Our mission here is to deliver you the breaking news and help you understand what's going on. Today, we're going to be doing a deep dive into the innermost loop, all things energy. I'm here with my extraordinary Moonshot mates, DB2, AWG, Salim. Welcome, gentlemen. Good to see you all. Looks like you're here.
Normal haunts. And we've got a friend with us today, everybody, on Moonshots. It is an honor and a pleasure for us to invite Ramez Naam.
Ramez is a computer scientist, investor, author, one of the clearest thinkers in the future of energy after a career at Microsoft. Ramez became the leading voice in the exponential decline in the cost of solar, batteries, fission, fusion. He's the founder managing partner of Planetary VC, investing in energy companies. He's the author of The Infinite Resource and one of my favorite ever science fiction novel series, The Nexus Trilogy. If you've not read Nexus, I cannot commend it. On Book Corner, where Alex and I talk about our books, I've mentioned Nexus a few times. Today, we're going to be exploring the innermost loop, why energy abundance may arrive faster than most forecast, and its impact on AI, economic growth, geopolitics, and our future. Again, my mission here is at the end of this podcast and the brilliant dialogue that my Moonshot mates is going to bring to the table here, you're going to understand either if you're an investor, if you're a builder, what's the alpha? Where is it going?
What are the real timelines for everything from building out nuclear plants, fusion plants, because sometimes there's hype, sometimes there is an overwhelming abundance of energy coming our way. So first off, Ramez, welcome pal.

**Ramez Naam** (3:05)
Peter, it's an honor to be here. Great to be here with friends. Yeah, I'm glad to be here.

**Peter Diamandis** (3:09)
You do have friends here. So I have a quick story. Yeah, of course you have a story.

**Dave Blundin** (3:17)
I'm worried, honestly.

**Salim Ismail** (3:19)
I remember we were presenting to one of the top oil companies and energy companies in the world, like top three or four. And they were like, well, who's this Ramez fellow? We want to grill him before we let him in front of the key people here. We're like, fine, grill Ramez. And so because we were talking a lot about solar and they're an oil and gas company, and after like two hours, they're like, okay, we need to get in front of them.
That was an awesome session.

**Peter Diamandis** (3:46)
Yeah, one thing I failed to mention is Ramez was part of our founding faculty at Singularity University, really led the whole energy conversation there and has been on stage at the Abundance Summit number of times. Hopefully you're back again coming in 2027
Mez, first of all, I just need to try to you, you need to write a fourth, fifth and sixth on the Nexus Trilogy.

**Ramez Naam** (4:10)
As soon as AI and energy get less exciting every single week, I will make time to write another novel.

**Peter Diamandis** (4:17)
How much time do you spend tracking what's going on on the innermost loop here?

**Ramez Naam** (4:21)
It's every day, all day. I mean, that's what we all do, right? Living in the singularity.

**Peter Diamandis** (4:26)
Yeah, we, this is living in the singularity. Before we get jumping in, Alex, you want to add anything to the conversation up front?