1KHO 904: Get Into Spaces Where You're Not In Control Anymore | Ian Morgan Cron, Chasing Francis

**Ginny Yurich** (0:00)
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My name is Ginny Yurich and the founder of 1000Hours Outside.
What an honor for the third time I get a chance to spend some time with Ian Morgan Cron. Welcome, Ian.

**Ian Morgan Cron** (1:16)
Thank you, Ginny. So fun to see you again.

**Ginny Yurich** (1:18)
I will never forget the story that you told in one of your books about, like I've told other people, I just think it's so funny about the story where you went streaking with your friends like through this golf club dinner.
It's such a funny story. It's like one of my favorite stories that I've ever read. And you talk about that one in, is that one in your Enneagram book or in the face?

**Ian Morgan Cron** (1:41)
No, that's in the road back to you.

**Ginny Yurich** (1:43)
Okay, so I mean, just for that story, you will laugh. I won't even tell the end of it. We talked about it before. But I just, I laughed. You're such a fantastic writer. Actually, the first book I read of yours was The Fix, which is kind of like bringing the 12 steps to every single person, like the benefits of those. And I didn't know much about the 12 steps. And I just learned so much from that. And your writing is always entertaining. And then I already had the road back to you because David Thomas and Sissy Goff, who run this Daystar Clinic in Tennessee, they had recommended it and already had that one. So we got to talk about Enneagram.
And you have something really unique that is out into the world and just got re-released. It is, okay, it's a fiction memoir.

**Ian Morgan Cron** (2:25)
Well, it's more fiction than memoir.
It is really the main character of the novel, is a guy whose life in some respects resembled mine when I wrote it.
But in many respects, his life is very different. So there's no factual basis in the book, right? It's a novel, it's a story. It's a story. Yeah, it's a story. But here's the thing about novels. There's an old expression, all novels are memoir and all memoir are novels. So, you know, there's, you know, when you're writing a piece of fiction like this one, you can't help but insert things about yourself into the main character or characters, right? Like you just parts of yourself are being brought out in these characters or worked out in these characters. And that's what makes writing fiction fun.

**Ginny Yurich** (3:33)
It's an interesting format. Sean Diedrich came out with an actual memoir earlier this year called I Could Walk.
I Would Walk 500 Miles. It's one of those. And he went on a pilgrimage. He did the Camino.

**Ian Morgan Cron** (3:48)
The Camino de Santiago.

**Ginny Yurich** (3:50)
Yes, he did that. And so this is like the second book I've read about pilgrimages and just really interesting, like the walking and the exposure to new ideas. And I mean, this is a day and age where I think a lot of people are confused and a little burnt out and seeking answers. So I loved it. I love the format of it. Can you talk about why you re-released?

**Ian Morgan Cron** (4:15)
Yeah, so this book is, you know, it's 20 years old, right? It was my first book and it's always been available, right? Like you could always have gone on Amazon and gotten it. But, you know, I've written five books now and and, you know, a lot of my audience doesn't know that this book exists in my back catalog. So HarperCollins came to me and they were like, you know, this is arguably your best book.