#1988 - James Reed

Joe Rogan (0:04)

The Joe Rogan Experience. How are you, sir?

James Reed (0:12)

What's going on, man?

Joe Rogan (0:14)

What an incredible piece of work you put together. I mean, that was...

I'm so impressed, and I loved it so much. I mean, I don't even know where to begin.

James Reed (0:26)

Well, I'm very pleased you liked it. You tell me, where do you want to begin?

Joe Rogan (0:31)

Where did it...

How did it start? Like, how long did it take, first of all, to get embedded to the point where they allowed you to be around them like that?

James Reed (0:41)

Okay, so, I mean...

Joe Rogan (0:43)

We should tell her, but it's Chimp Empire.

James Reed (0:45)

It's Chimp Empire, yeah. So, four-part series chronicling this unusual period in the Ngogo chimpanzees' lives, right? So, we are very, very lucky. Basically, there's a scientific project out there that's been working at Ngogo for almost 30 years now. So, scientists, when they first arrived, the chimpanzees were not habituated to humans at all. So, they kind of came knowing there was a big group of chimps out there, but they didn't know anything about how many there were or who they were.

And they had to go through this process of habituation, which basically means following them around and getting them used to humans observing them. So, in those early days, the chimps would just run off. They'd have total fear for humans. So, they weren't even able to see them, let alone study them.

But they gradually overcame that fear, and to the point where the scientists can just arrive with their notebooks and gently follow them around kind of within the group every day. So, after years of doing that, it makes it possible for a film crew to come in and kind of literally walk in their footsteps. So that process of actually being accepted into the chimpanzees' group was sort of...

We had this previous scientific project that enabled us to do that. And in terms of for the series, we had like 400 filming days. We knew that we wanted to be sort of observing them from in detail and from sort of within the group. And yeah, we were able to do that. We had a great crew, lightweight equipment, and sort of followed them around constantly for about 400 days.

Joe Rogan (2:41)

I mean, the footage you guys acquired, it's really amazing. I've never seen anything like it. It's like a chimp was carrying around a camera.

Was there any moment where they interacted with you guys where you thought like maybe you were threatened or in danger?

James Reed (2:59)

You know, if you're filming lines or something from a sort of safari vehicle, you film them with a long lens and you're kind of spying on them from a distance. So they might sort of clock that you're in a car from a long way away, but you're observing them and you're kind of not part of it. You're looking in from the outside.

With chimps, partly because of the habitat they live in, right, it's a dense rainforest. So if you were 50 meters away, you can't see anything. So you need to be close to the chimps to observe and film them.

And also it wouldn't be a good idea to try and creep around and hide from them. They wouldn't like that. So you sort of, you peacefully, gently kind of make your presence known. And they sort of, they acknowledge you when you turn up. They're certainly sort of checking you out. But then they go about their daily business and it's incredible how little interaction they have and how little that they sort of ever, ever even come close to interacting with you.

Joe Rogan (4:12)

But what about if you have food or something that they want? Do they get curious about things like that?

James Reed (4:17)

You know, they're very careful there. And that the scientists for years have sort of made sure that, you know, the strict rules that you can't take, you take food in, but it's in concealed containers. You don't eat in front of the chimps.

That's exactly the sort of thing that could cause a situation, if there was some association with food or something that you had that they wanted. So that's really carefully managed. And there's, you know, they don't associate you with food and they just treat you as a sort of passive observer.

Having said that, you know, you're right in there. And, you know, they could be just sitting around peacefully, sort of playing or grooming each other, or they could be doing something quite aggressive and they could be fighting, or they could be patrolling for another group or hunting. And then, even though none of it is sort of targeted at you, they are behaving in a way that can be quite intimidating around you.