#1780 - Maajid Nawaz

SPEAKER_1 (0:04)

The Joe Rogan Experience.

Joe Rogan (0:14)

The JFK story is like, that has been Oliver Stone's thing. He's been following that story, he's been chasing it down. We talked about in the podcast that his film, JFK, was essentially 30 years after the assassination. And then this documentary that he just released is 30 years after his film.

So he's been chasing this thing down.

Maajid Nawaz (0:33)

I should catch the documentary. I've seen the film.

Joe Rogan (0:35)

It's very good. It's on Showtime.

Maajid Nawaz (0:37)

I mean, generally, we're live, right? So generally, the assassination of presidents, it's something which I've been in prison with, people that assassinated Sadat. Oh, really? This intrigue at the top and the plots, I actually befriended them.

I've got a copy of a Quran at home signed by one of them as a gift to me, a parting gift from prison. But the kind of intrigue, when you get to that level of intrigue at the top, nothing is ever what it seems, man.

Joe Rogan (1:07)

I can only imagine. It's got to be a stressful way to live. Imagine being a world leader.

Maajid Nawaz (1:12)

Yeah, of course.

Joe Rogan (1:13)

And all the shit you're dealing with and potential assassination and coup plots.

Maajid Nawaz (1:20)

And part of how you operate has to be one thing, one face you present to the public and another thing is what you're really actually doing because you've got all these other people, especially today with the nature of information wars, attempting to subvert what you're trying to do based on your over actions. And so you have to try to hide what you're really actually up to.

It's difficult to navigate that terrain.

Joe Rogan (1:43)

Well, not only that, but when you operate like that, if you're constantly operating in this sort of deception vein, it's got to be hard to know what's true and what's not true, because you're full of shit. When you're full of shit, I think it becomes more difficult to recognize what's true and what's not true.

Maajid Nawaz (2:01)

And you don't get to that position unless you're full of shit in the first place.

Joe Rogan (2:04)

You have to compromise. They don't let you in.

When you find out politicians that earn $200,000 a year, and you find out they're worth $200 million.

Maajid Nawaz (2:14)

How did that happen?

Joe Rogan (2:14)

And you're like, what is going on?

Maajid Nawaz (2:16)

Well, I'll tell you what's going on. Just look to Pelosi, right?

Joe Rogan (2:18)

Yes. Well, that was what I was talking about.

Maajid Nawaz (2:19)

She's making a lot of money.

Joe Rogan (2:20)

It's wild.

Maajid Nawaz (2:21)

But it's not from her salary.

Joe Rogan (2:22)

Well, my favorite thing was when she was confronted, and they asked her a question about trading, about whether or not people that are in Congress and what have you should be able to trade. And she takes a sip of water, because she knows this is going to be a big one.

Maajid Nawaz (2:36)

Well, listen, there was on Twitter, and we can probably return to the question of tech and speech and censorship, but there was this account called Pelosi Tracker. I don't know if you ever saw it.

It's been taken down. It was tracking all her trades. I was following the damn thing. I was really interested to learn from it.

Joe Rogan (2:52)

It's good to invest in what she's investing in.

Maajid Nawaz (2:55)

Because that's what they say, right? You watch her moves, and you know you're going to make money.

Joe Rogan (2:58)

Why would they take it down?

Maajid Nawaz (2:59)

It got taken down. There was two accounts. One was called Epstein Tracker, and it was following the Gillane trial.

Was it Gillane Tracker or Epstein Tracker? The other was Pelosi Tracker. Both got taken down. Why?

Yeah, who knows, man? Why does Twitter do anything?

Joe Rogan (3:14)

Man, it's so confusing now. I mean, Twitter used to be... You remember the old days when you would just say, like, at Maajid, I'm having a pizza with friends?

You know, like, you would do those things. That's what people would do, like off to the movies with my buddies.

Maajid Nawaz (3:30)

It's a weapon now. It's a weapon in a hybrid war that we're in.

Unfortunately, we're in a hybrid war, and one of the main fronts in that war is information over the definition of reality. And in that context, if whoever defines reality gets to win, and Twitter is, as a result, in that context, it's a weapon that is being used to define reality by molding people's minds.