#1683 - Andrew Huberman

Andrew Huberman (0:17)

Yeah, well anyway, I'm just a giant fantasy VD. I use it constantly. I use it for, like, I use the roll-ons for muscle aches, and I use gummies, and CBDMD is one of my sponsors, but this Killcliff company, this is actually a drink that I designed.

Joe Rogan (0:35)

It tastes really good.

Andrew Huberman (0:36)

Thank you.

Joe Rogan (0:37)

I like it. Yeah, so many of the questions I get are about anxiety, people. Like, how do I control my anxiety? People are stressed.

So the CBD is supposed to help with that.

Andrew Huberman (0:45)

It's supposed to help with that, and I think it does a little bit. One of the things that I found is CBD with THC, it alleviates even more.

I can add a little THC to it.

Joe Rogan (0:56)

Yeah, I can imagine. THC probably takes the edge off.

Andrew Huberman (0:58)

But it's also a balancing act. You know, the problem, like I used to get CBD with THC from a local company in LA, and they were so inconsistent in that, like I'd take like I had a thing. I do like three droplets. I'm like, OK, I got three droppers full. And then one day I did three droppers and I was on the fucking moon. I was like, what are you? What have you people done?

Joe Rogan (1:20)

Street side chemistry.

Andrew Huberman (1:21)

Yeah, they're all bathtub chemists.

Joe Rogan (1:23)

Well, that's the thing.

I think with supplements, they're so poorly regulated. I'm not pushing for regulation. The last thing we need is regulation on it. But it's like melatonin. I was talking to Matt Walker about this, who, you know, my friend Matt, amazing sleep scientist. And turns out that the amount of melatonin, if it's listed like three milligrams or six milligrams, it can vary anywhere from being 15% of what's actually listed on the bottle to 85% more. And if you look at how much melatonin is actually made by the pineal gland, it's a tiny fraction of the three milligrams it's supposed to be.

So melatonin, it's all over the place.

Andrew Huberman (2:01)

Does that mess you up if you take melatonin? Does your body say, well, I don't need any melatonin, I don't need to make it?

Joe Rogan (2:08)

It might. The bigger, I never suggest melatonin for sleep for a couple reasons. One is the reason kids don't go into puberty until a certain age is because they have chronically high melatonin.

Andrew Huberman (2:19)

Really?

Joe Rogan (2:20)

Melatonin suppresses puberty.

Andrew Huberman (2:23)

So does it suppress your endocrine system?

Joe Rogan (2:25)

So in humans, it's probably not as dramatic as it is in animals that are seasonal breeders. But long ago, when I was a graduate student at Berkeley, we would do these experiments on these little, what are called Siberian hamsters, these little hamsters. And these hamsters only breed in long days because light basically suppresses melatonin, okay? So in short days, long nights, seasonal breeding animals shut down breeding, right? Humans can breed all year long, of course. But if you give melatonin to a male Siberian hamster, its testes go from the size of standard marbles to the size of a grain of rice within a week. Wow. And the females, their ovaries involute. They basically turn into like little shriveled, not even raisins, but little specks.

So when I hear about people taking a lot of melatonin and you've got this whole issue with falling testosterone, dysregulated estrogen in men and women, I just think it's not the best sleep aid. The other thing, and Matt and I have talked about this a lot recently, just we've been hanging out and chatting about science, or as he would say, splashing around in the science of sleep, as he's a Brit after all.

The problem with melatonin is it will help you fall asleep, but it won't help you stay asleep. And so some people have this problem, they take melatonin, they fall asleep, and then they wake up three or four hours later.

Andrew Huberman (3:38)

Because it wears off?

Joe Rogan (3:39)

Yeah, there are much better things for sleep.

Andrew Huberman (3:41)

What do you choose for sleep?

Joe Rogan (3:43)

Yeah, my favorite sleep cocktail based on really good, solid, peer-reviewed science is magnesium threonate. It's T-H-R-E-O-N-A-T-E, threonate, and something called apigenin, A-P-I-G-E-N-I-N, which is basically a derivative of chamomile.

Those two things work really well to, they essentially shut down the forebrain thinking, anticipating part of your brain, allow you to drift off into sleep really well.

Andrew Huberman (4:08)

Oh, I need that all day then, if you can shut that down.