#1588 - Lawrence Wright

Joe Rogan (0:16)

I've enjoyed your work. I'm a gigantic fan of Going Clear, in particular.

Lawrence Wright (0:21)

Oh, really?

Joe Rogan (0:22)

Yeah, I read the book and watched the HBO documentary on it. One of the most bonkers things in our culture today.

Amazing that Scientology is like still... I mean, I passed by the Church of Scientology here just the other day. I was like, oh, it still works.

Lawrence Wright (0:40)

Yeah, they've just moved it. When the documentary came out, some woman had just gone to see it at the movie theater, and it was on the drag, you know, on Guadalupe, across from the university.

And she drove her car through the plate glass windows of the Scientology building, and she didn't stop there. She drove around the lobby a little bit, knocking over bookshelves. She had to issue a statement deploring violence in any form.

Joe Rogan (1:10)

Was she a victim of it?

Lawrence Wright (1:13)

No, she had just seen the documentary, and she was really worked up.

Joe Rogan (1:16)

Wow. That's a hype. She might have some other issues.

Maybe Scientology could have helped her, ironically.

Lawrence Wright (1:24)

I might have been a course for that.

Joe Rogan (1:25)

It's a weird thing when you see so many people that are so successful that are Scientologists. At least you used to see that. I had a neighbor who was one of the nicest guys. He was a great guy in my old neighborhood, and he was a Scientologist. I found out in the most bizarre way, because there was a piece of land that was for sale. He was talking about this piece of land, about possibly purchasing it, but he was going to have to put it off, because he needed $50,000, because his wife was going clear.

It was like a scene in a movie where the record skips were. I went, what? What are you doing?

This was me of, I was probably 28 at the time, 29

The podcast has radically changed the way I look at things, because I've had a chance to educate myself and have all these conversations with brilliant people, and just enough of these conversations where I have a different perspective. But back then, I really didn't know too much about Scientology, other than I had bought a book from Dianetics online, because they wouldn't stop sending me these pamphlets, asking me to come to all these various meetings and this and that, and sending me all these things for programs they have, discounts.

In one way, I admired their hustle. I was like, these guys don't stop. They just kept sending this shit to my mailbox.

I thought it was like a self-help book, and I had always been into Anthony Robbins and all these different... I was always into motivation. What can I get that's going to help me work harder or succeed better? You know, whatever. So I saw this thing, and it was like, wow, this seems very compelling. And I knew that there was a bunch of famous people that were Scientologists, like Tom Cruise and all of them. I was like, maybe this is legit. And I was reading it, and I was like, boy, this seems odd. It seems off without getting too much into it. So when I talked to this guy who was my neighbor, I really didn't have a deep background in understanding it. But that was the beginning of me, like, really getting into it, like talking to him and finding out, like, how much money he had to spend and what was it about and, like, what do they do for you? And he was explaining how nothing would ever influence you again. No negative influence. That's what Going Clear meant. That was probably one of the first times I had ever heard that expression.

Lawrence Wright (4:01)

The first time I ran into it was when I was in college and I was, my girlfriend and I were living in an apartment above this little storefront and it was Scientology and I'd never heard of it before and, you know, they showed me the E-meter and stuff like that and I just thought, I thought it was interesting, you know. I wasn't put off by it. I was, you know, I thought maybe so. I didn't pursue it.

Joe Rogan (4:28)

How old were you at the time?

Lawrence Wright (4:29)

I was 21

21, yeah. And, you know, it was, I've always been interested in religions. You know, it's one of the themes, I guess, of my work and why people go into one religion rather, why they believe one thing rather than another because in America you can believe anything you want and, you know, it's not true in a lot of countries but in our country there's a smorgasbord of religions you can choose from and if you don't see something, you know, you can make up your own. And, you know, it's a very fertile religious culture which interests me and I, as a reporter, I think about how people have strong political beliefs and it doesn't affect their behavior at all, you know. You know a lot of people like that, I'm sure. But, you know, if you have powerful religious beliefs, it determines your life. And, you know, as journalists, we should pay more attention to that. So I've always been intrigued by different religious manifestations. So Scientology was on my list.