#1565 - Gary Laderman

Gary Laderman (0:04)

The Joe Rogan Experience.

Joe Rogan (0:15)

What's up, man? Thanks for coming, appreciate it.

Gary Laderman (0:17)

I'm happy to be here.

Joe Rogan (0:18)

Why don't you tell everybody what you do?

Gary Laderman (0:21)

Well, for work.

Yeah, I teach at Emory University, so I'm a professor. I've been there for about 25 years, and I also write, write some books and teach a variety of classes.

Joe Rogan (0:37)

But you study, like, what I've read of your study is some of it is on death and some of it is on drugs.

Gary Laderman (0:48)

That is correct.

Joe Rogan (0:48)

Those are two very heavy subjects.

Gary Laderman (0:51)

That may be the heaviest. Well, the other course I teach is religion and sexuality, so, I mean, that's another really heavy one.

Joe Rogan (0:59)

You look like a guy who would study both death and drugs. So it fits.

Gary Laderman (1:04)

Well, this is the pandemic here. I mean, really, I'm usually, I'm much more, you know, well, I'm not really, I'm not really a click guy.

Joe Rogan (1:12)

Ever thought of doing this? Just doing the full buzz?

Gary Laderman (1:15)

One of my students told me I should do before I came in here.

Joe Rogan (1:18)

I'm telling you, man, once you do it, it's so freeing not having to go to a barber shop or a hairdresser.

Gary Laderman (1:24)

Well, what's weird is I feel really free with all this hair.

Joe Rogan (1:28)

Yeah, well, again, the hair fits the subjects that you studied.

How did you get involved in, when you talk about drugs, like you studied all sorts of psychedelic drugs, but also common drugs, like caffeine, like we were talking about before. I was telling you before that I make some ridiculous French press coffee with far too much coffee in it, and it's become a bit of a problem lately.

Gary Laderman (1:52)

Well, but it's probably keeping you healthy and keeping you going.

Joe Rogan (1:56)

I don't know if it is. I don't know. At the end of the day, I'm really tired, and I'm not usually really tired, and I think it's because I've been on speed all day.

Gary Laderman (2:04)

It can tire you out, that's for sure.

Joe Rogan (2:07)

Yeah.

Gary Laderman (2:08)

But yeah, I mean, my interest in studying the connection between religion and drugs, I'm in a department of religion at Emory, really spans the spectrum, so I'm interested, yeah, for sure, in psychedelics, but also, as you're saying, in the more ordinary, psychoactive drugs that bring order to our lives and allow us to tap into our true identity, maintain some semblance of stability in our lives, things that religion often can do.

Joe Rogan (2:44)

The subject of religion and drugs is, it's really fascinating to me, but it's something that I never even really considered until 10, 15 years ago, and I was introduced to Jack Herrer, and he was, do you know who he is? The cannabis advocate, recently deceased, not so recently anymore, great guy, but was writing a book about the connection between psychedelics, particularly psilocybin, and religion and Christianity, and he had this amazing collection of artwork that connected ancient Christian artwork with a lot of these dancing naked figures that looked like they were in ecstasy, shrouded by this translucent mushroom.

Gary Laderman (3:32)

Yeah, though that's not uncommon. There are a lot of theories out there that connect early Christianity especially to different kinds of hallucinogenic psychedelic drugs of some form, but I think the connections are much more widespread.

People have been using psychoactive substances for religious ritual, for religious experience, for forms of transcendence and journey, in all kinds of different cultural settings and through history.

Joe Rogan (4:10)

What got you into the subject?

Gary Laderman (4:13)

Well, I've been interested in the topic of drugs for a while, but I think what really led me to see this would be quite a fruitful topic to pursue in terms of research was I wrote a short little essay on LSD and religion. Talked about my own experience as a young man tripping. And talking about the ways in which, when I had that experience in the late 70s, and people more and more were enjoying psychedelics coming out of the decade of the 60s, I started to see that they would often use words like spiritual or mystical to describe their experiences. And to talk about how their religious views are being reoriented.

And I saw that in my own experience and wrote about that as a way to talk about what is probably the most significant shift in religion in America. And that's the rise of the nuns, those who don't affiliate with any religion.