#1556 - Glenn Greenwald

Glenn Greenwald (0:16)

Hello, Joe Rogan, how are you?

Joe Rogan (0:17)

I'm great, man. It's great to finally make your acquaintance digitally, at least.

Glenn Greenwald (0:23)

Yeah, yeah, we've been trying for a while, like before the pandemic. So I'm glad we're at least finally able to do this version of it.

Joe Rogan (0:30)

Yeah, I hope we do it in person eventually. That would be nice.

Glenn Greenwald (0:33)

For sure.

Joe Rogan (0:33)

What is it like down in Brazil?

Glenn Greenwald (0:37)

In general or?

Joe Rogan (0:39)

No, I've been to Brazil.

Glenn Greenwald (0:39)

With everything that's going on.

Joe Rogan (0:41)

In general, like right now. I've been to Brazil multiple times. I love it down there.

Glenn Greenwald (0:45)

Yeah, I mean, so obviously, it's a fraught situation politically because the country in 2018 elected, you know, a genuine fanatic, someone who explicitly prefers the military dictatorship that ruled the country until 1985, as opposed to democracy, which succeeded it, Jair Bolsonaro.

And then beyond that, the coronavirus has hit this country almost harder than any other, probably just right after the United States, but because of extreme poverty here and income inequality, you could probably make the case that it's hit this country harder than any other. So politically, in terms of the pandemic, and then of course economically, things are pretty bleak. But at the same time, Brazil, which is what made me fall in love with it in the first place is always this country, as you know, if you visited, so bursting full of vibrancy and energy and potential and uniqueness that I'm always kind of optimistic about it, no matter how grim things seem to be.

Joe Rogan (1:49)

They're very, very friendly people. I really love it down there. I first went there in 2003 for the Abu Dhabi World Jiu-Jitsu Championships.

And so-

Glenn Greenwald (2:01)

Right, yeah, cause I guess the fighting that you like is super popular here, right? There are a lot of Brazilian MMA fighters.

Joe Rogan (2:07)

Oh yeah, I mean, the original UFC fighter was Hoyce Gracie, who's a member of the famous Gracie clan that came out of Rio. So yeah, I've been going there for 17 years. I really do love it down there.

Glenn Greenwald (2:21)

Yeah, you know, it's funny that it is, I mean, it's a culture, as you say, where things are, where the people are super nice. And before I lived here, I lived in, you know, Manhattan, where I lived and worked, which is pretty much the exact polar opposite of Brazil in terms of mentality of the people. I remember, you know, I used to come to Rio, when I first started coming here, you would go to the grocery store or the supermarket, and there'd be a line of like eight people.

And the people in line would just stop and chat with the cashier, you know, for like three minutes. And I would like be ready to have an aneurysm because I'd come from Manhattan, where, you know, if like you're behind somebody in the ATM line and they like accidentally put a wrong button or the wrong password, you want to murder them for wasting four seconds of your life. And then after a while, you know, I started realizing, look, if I'm going to live here, I need to accept that kind of cultural vibe. And it really just taught me a lot about the need not to have to maximize the utility of every moment.

Joe Rogan (3:18)

Yeah, I have a friend who moved down there from Los Angeles to do jujitsu. And he said, the first thing you have to accept is that you're on Brazil time. They are just so laid back. If you need anything to get done, if you need a plumber and he's supposed to be there at 10, he might not be there till one.

And when he's there, he's going to be real casual about it. And it might not get done for weeks and weeks, something that you can get done in LA in a couple of hours. It's just, it is what it is. You just got to accept it. They're just more laid back.

They're not in a rush.

Glenn Greenwald (3:48)

Yeah, I've asked many people, many Brazilians here, why do you bother having the word for fast in Portuguese since it applies to nothing?

And yeah, it's true. And you can decide that that's what you hate about it. For me, just the complete lack of organization or urgency in terms of time is one of the things I love about it.

Joe Rogan (4:08)

So being there and you were there, living there when you broke the Snowden interview, the Snowden case?