152: Is Israeli society tearing itself apart? With Micah Goodman

Haviv Rettig Gur (0:05)

Hi, everybody. Welcome to a new episode of Ask Haviv Anything. It is a pleasure to welcome back to the podcast. A friend of the podcast, my friend, teacher, prominent Israeli public intellectual, Micah Goodman, who has been here before. We've talked about many different subjects. Micah has written seven non-fiction books on subjects ranging from Jewish philosophy, the philosophy of technology, political philosophy. Micah hosts a podcast called Mifleget HaMachshavot, or the party of ideas, with Efrat Shapira Rosenberg, a podcast produced by Beit Avi Chai in Jerusalem. The podcast is in Hebrew. It's aimed at an Israeli audience. Ahead of the election, they are actually launching a series of English language episodes that will go out on YouTube, called The Thinkers, the ideas behind Israeli politics. Be sure to check that out.

And that's also going to be the topic of our discussion today in the run up to the election.

What are the big ideas or social trends or tensions that underlie these elections? We're now in the home stretch of the campaign. By the time this episode publishes, it's probably going to be about two weeks to election day. So it's an opportunity to take a moment out of the campaigning, the thinking about the politics, the dramas of the Middle East, the dramas of this moment and the three years of war, and try to understand the much larger picture. Before we get into it, I want to tell you that this episode is sponsored by the Tikvah Millstone Scholars Program. It's a unique program. It's designed for the middle school years when young people begin deciding what they believe, who they want to become.

For parents and grandparents wondering what comes after the Bar Mitzvah or the Bak Mitzvah, Millstone offers substantive, serious learning. It's not Hebrew school. It's a selective national honors program for seventh and eighth graders. Students meet weekly in small cohorts to study Jewish civilization, modern Israel, and the Jewish ideas that inspired America. Through primary sources and guided seminar discussion, they develop the confidence to become proud Jews, proud Americans and future leaders. Millstone offers in-person and online cohorts across 30 cities. Classes begin the week of October 18 You can learn more and apply at tikvah.org/haviv.

That's tikvah, T-I-K-V-A-H dot org slash Haviv. I'll just say on a personal note, I have partaken not as a middle schooler, as an adult, in Tikvah's educational programming. It is fantastic and deeply, deeply enriching. And I happen to know for a fact that Micah himself has taught in Tikvah educational programming. I can't recommend the organization enough and the program enough. Also, folks, if you like what we do here, join our Patreon, subscribe to our Substack. Those communities, they keep the lights on and you also get to take part in conversations and asking the questions, the guide, the topics we talk about.

That happens over there. You are also part of monthly live streams where I answer your questions live. Join us at patreon.com/askhavivanything or havivgur.substack.com. Those links are in the show notes. Let's get into it. Micah, how are you?

Micah Goodman (3:27)

I'm really glad to be here, Haviv.

Haviv Rettig Gur (3:29)

It's really great to have you. I want to dive right into this conversation. We've been batting some ideas back and forth. I mean, we sometimes bat ideas back and forth just for fun because we're nerds, but mainly there's a lot happening to Israelis and there's a tremendous amount of worry and anxiety in Israeli society that I don't know that we really fully understand about ourselves. We don't quite know what's happening to us, around us. You have suggested two narratives about this election. One narrative is about consensus, a new consensus has emerged, and another narrative is about how this election really is framed around some very profound divides. So there is a new political consensus and really deep divides.

Let's start with the first narrative.

We feel Israelis a solidarity, a consensus on the basic reality in which we live, and that should favor a more unified politics, more social cohesion. Walk us through the new consensus that you see in Israeli society.

Micah Goodman (4:33)

Haviv, these are not just two narratives about the elections. These are two narratives about Israel.

If you think tell them what it is, they're both true. There's a two stories about Israel. They are opposite stories and were somehow both true. They capture the paradox of Israel. But the elections are a great window. We'd be to look through this window and to try to understand what's really happening in Israel. So the consensus narrative has many aspects. I want to focus on one, on the policy aspect. On the possibility that there's an invisible consensus in Israel as we're talking.