#1501 - James Lindsay

Joe Rogan (0:00)

Do, what, you can ride an elephant in Thailand. I rode an elephant in Thailand.

It was actually, they were actually healthy, happy elephants that were well taken care of, because it's an elephant rescue.

So they're free, they're free elephants. They wander around, they literally came out of the mist in the jungle, like a movie, it was crazy. And they're treated really, really well. So I didn't like the riding part, I thought that was kinda fucked up, but they don't give a fuck, man. You are literally like a hat to them.

James Lindsay (0:32)

Yeah, they're huge, strong.

Joe Rogan (0:34)

But they came over, the whole idea was you pay for this experience with the elephants, and in that they rehabilitate these elephants, and they've released many of them back to the wild.

Because they don't need to be trained to be able to just eat vegetables and let in vegetation, they just do it. So they came over, and you were introduced to the elephant that you were gonna take care of for the day, and then you start feeding it sugar cane, and they love you. So you're feeding them and you touch them. They're super gentle, like the most gentle creatures. And then you actually clean them off. You wash them off.

So there's like this grooming thing. And then when you go to get on them, they know you're trying to get on them. So they actually lift their leg up like this so that you can step on their leg. And then you step on them and you climb on top of them. It's difficult. Like, it's hard to ride them, but they literally don't give a fuck if you're on them because you're so light to them. And then they make their way through the jungle, but it was pretty cool.

James Lindsay (1:33)

That's nuts, man.

Joe Rogan (1:34)

Yeah, it was pretty cool. It was pretty cool.

It was, it's humbling, you know? But that's the only way I'd want to be around them other than in the wild. Like, I get bummed out at zoos.

James Lindsay (1:46)

I do too. I mean, that's my story, right? So I've been yelled at for that. That's like the story of 2020 is getting yelled at for everything.

But I rode, when I was a kid, you could ride elephants at the zoo. And so, I don't know.

Joe Rogan (1:58)

People got mad at you for that?

James Lindsay (1:59)

I mean, I told the story one time, people lost their minds on me, because I guess it's not okay now. It was like a cost of dollars. They weren't rehabilitating elephants or doing anything good with it. I was like seven, though, so I don't really remember it.

But it's like times have changed.

Joe Rogan (2:11)

But they're mad at you for something you did when you were little, which is funny. That's one of the things that's going on now, is people are retroactively getting canceled for things.

James Lindsay (2:20)

Yeah, like they did when they were kids.

It's ridiculous. I mean, it's like everything's a permanent stain on you. There's no growth. You can't become a better person.

Joe Rogan (2:28)

What do you think that is?

What is the desire that people have to do that? Where's that coming from?

James Lindsay (2:36)

Well, you know, there's two ways we could talk about it. We could talk about the psychological side of it, which is like this moral purity thing that's going bonkers, or we could talk about it in terms of the idea is the theory that's fueling this.

And that has this idea that comes from French philosophy that words and ideas and thoughts and patterns have traces that don't ever really go away. And so if something used to be associated with something bad and we still use the word, or even if you pretend that it was the case and you still use the word, then it carries this negative trace. So the moral panic and the psychology side of it's fueled by this kind of like stupid idea that words always have to mean kind of what they meant in the first place.

Joe Rogan (3:17)

Are people aware of that though? I mean, is this just conveniently connected to it or conveniently similar? Or do you think that people are actually aware of this concept?

James Lindsay (3:26)

I don't think most people do. So we're generally talking about this whatever woke thing that's happening, right? And so you got to think of woke kind of like a church, right? I grew up Catholic. So it's like you got cultural Catholics, they kind of go to church and maybe they go to confession sometimes and they don't really do it, but they don't really do it.