#1437 - Stephen Dubner

Joe Rogan (0:00)

Ready, young Jamie.

Here we go. How are you, sir?

Stephen Dubner (0:04)

I'm great, thanks.

Joe Rogan (0:06)

Nice to meet you.

Stephen Dubner (0:06)

Nice to meet you.

Joe Rogan (0:07)

We were talking before about Adam Curry, who is just here, who has these crazy ear enhancements that are these software based, so he can tweak it and change levels and stuff like that. And you were saying that you also have hearing, but you got it from rock and roll.

Stephen Dubner (0:22)

Yeah, I mean, honestly, I've never been tested. I just know that when I'm out eating with my family or friends, that everybody can hear everything and I can't hear anything.

So, but no, I played loud rock music for six, seven, eight, nine years. And yeah, it does what they say it does.

Joe Rogan (0:41)

Yeah, they know what they're doing. Those people that tell you don't have to do that.

Stephen Dubner (0:45)

But look, I like the technology. Like, I have older relatives who have a hearing aid or whatever they call now, hearing enhancement devices that are like light years better than they used to be.

Joe Rogan (0:55)

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Stephen Dubner (0:56)

So I figure if I can hold out a couple more years, mine are gonna like be so good, they'll take out the garbage too.

Joe Rogan (1:00)

Well, the ones that Adam has sound pretty fucking amazing. He said it just sounds incredible and that he can actually tune in to people that are 50 feet away, 50 feet away having a conversation, he can hear them.

Stephen Dubner (1:10)

And can you tune out people you don't like?

Joe Rogan (1:11)

That's a good question. I bet there is a way, I bet he has various settings, but I bet there's like a tone the world out setting.

Stephen Dubner (1:19)

I don't need to tone the world, they're just some people. Sometimes, yeah.

Joe Rogan (1:22)

Have you used any of those AirPods that have the noise canceling technology?

Stephen Dubner (1:27)

Oh, not AirPods, but I wear Bose noise cancelers almost every day. I wear them a lot. Oh, you know, when I started as a journalist in newsrooms, this was, whatever, late 80s, early 90s, I didn't, like, a newsroom is an open place, and a lot of people back then were on the phone doing your reporting. It was pre-internet reporting, right?

And I didn't, you're a writer, you're writing and you're editing, and I didn't understand how people could think with all this din going on. I couldn't do it.

So I started wearing just the good foam earplugs. They're made by, I think, is the brand that I use. They're kind of non-tapered, and they're very thick, and if you compress them and put them in, it'll block out, like, 70, 80%. So I've been shutting out the world for 25 years now. So when the noise cancelers got good, I've embraced them, yeah.

Joe Rogan (2:18)

Yeah, some people need it, though, right? They need that sound, like, at the coffee shop. Like, they love to go to coffee shops, and all the milling around actually helps their creativity.

Stephen Dubner (2:25)

You know, we're doing an episode right now, Freakonomics Radio, on noise, basically, as, you know, kind of, we got into it thinking about noise pollution, right? Because noise is a funny thing. It's what economists call an externality, a negative externality, meaning you can produce it, and it affects me, but I can't charge you for it, right? It's like pollution. If you have a big factory, your pollution goes up, it blows over to someone else. That's an externality on them. So noise is that.

But what's really interesting is that there's a huge variance in how different people receive and perceive noise, as you just said. So some people really need it and want it.

For some, it's a burden. And then there's all these rather weird intricacies of noise, like have you heard of mesophonia? Do you know what that is?

Joe Rogan (3:13)

I have heard of it, but I don't remember what it means.

Stephen Dubner (3:16)

It is an intensely negative reaction when you hear other people chewing or their mouths making any sound. And it can be debilitating for people who have it. But then there's something called, I'm gonna get it wrong, AMSR, ASMR, you know that?

Joe Rogan (3:30)

Yeah, there's all these videos online with that.

SPEAKER_3 (3:32)

Right, right, right.

Stephen Dubner (3:32)

Yeah, so that's it. So noise is- What does that stand for, though? I'd have to look it up.

SPEAKER_3 (3:39)

Automated sense something.