14 Patterns Behind the World’s Greatest Minds - David Senra - #1126

**Chris Williamson** (0:00)
I'm a lazy workaholic. I have to force myself to do it.
My demeanor would be to do nothing. What's that mean?

**David Senra** (0:06)
Okay. This was shocking. So I've been a massive fan of Rick Rubin for probably decades.
I grew up listening to rap. He founded one of the most important hip-hop record labels in his dorm room, when he was like 18 or 19 He think he's 63 now, and he's still making incredible music. So I've done a bunch of episodes about him, going back like five, six years ago, going back five, six years on my other podcast founders. So I write biographies about him. I read his book, Creative Act. Have you read Creative Act?

**Chris Williamson** (0:34)
Yes.

**David Senra** (0:35)
Okay.
So then I had the opportunity to meet him and then record an episode with him. I thought, I've read his biography over and over again, watched every interview with him. I thought I knew what to expect.
When he said, I'm a lazy workaholic, you can even watch the clip on the show, where it's like, you're lying to me, Rick. What are you talking about? Because out of anybody in the world that gets paid to be themselves, you would say like Rick Rubin has got to be towards the top of that list, right? I thought he was just completely obsessed with music. I thought he was just obsessed and absolutely loved his work. His whole point is just like, no, I have to force myself to do it. I like the act of creation. I like finishing the creation. But the five months of us doing thousands of takes, he goes, I don't like that. I wake up every day and I'm like, oh my, it's not like, the line he said, he goes, it's not like I wake up every day and I'm like, oh my God, I get to go to work today. He goes, oh no, I have to go to the studio. And the reason I wanted to talk to you about that was because when you put that out, I got thousands of messages from people in all walks of life saying, this is exactly how I feel. I love after I'm done working, I like some parts of it, but I feel that I have to force myself to do it. And Rick's hilarious because he's just like, it's a beautiful day, we filmed at Shangri-La. His recording studio, Malibu. And I think I might have said or he might have said, he's like, I'd rather just be out here, butt naked in the sun instead of in the studio.

**Chris Williamson** (1:59)
There is a part of me that doesn't want to show up for anything and I have to overcome that every day.

**David Senra** (2:04)
Yeah, that's a direct quote from him, which is again shocking considering. Because I understand if you're trying to do something, you do it for a year, maybe five years, maybe you struggle through that for a few years. But this guy has been in the same industry, the same business, doing the same trade for four decades. He says he's felt like that forever. He's like now he just has a little bit more control over his life. He was telling me that the first 25 years of his career, it was essentially seven days a week, 16 hours a day in a dark recording studio.

**Chris Williamson** (2:35)
It's tough to do if it feels like a burden, if you have to make yourself do that and you've got this tiny bit of enjoyment at the end once you've shipped the product.

**David Senra** (2:42)
Part of my heart sank a little because he is like somebody I admire and somebody almost like a hero of mine and I feel the opposite. I wake up and I was like, I cannot wait. Right now, the team, we took a two-week break from the new show because the team was in Italy, one of the team members is getting married.
It was close to depression. I miss not being able to podcast and have these conversations and just do the things that I'm doing every day. So it's completely opposite. How I felt is how I thought Rick would have felt. It was very surprising. You see somebody that is literally the best in the world at what he does. He maintains a singular position and he's telling you, it's a fucking struggle for me too.

**Chris Williamson** (3:16)
What's driven him to keep going if he dislikes the process that much?

**David Senra** (3:19)
He loves the magical act of creation. When something is not going well and they're failing, and they're failing, and they're failing, and they're experimenting, experimenting, and then they just do one little tweak, it's like, oh, now we got it. He says he's addicted to that, that moment of creation, of figuring it out. That's what he likes.