#1389 - Chris Kresser Debunks "The Gamechangers" Documentary

Joe Rogan (0:03)

Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Kresser.

Chris Kresser (0:05)

Joe, good to be back.

Joe Rogan (0:06)

How are you, buddy? Good to see you. We are here because of the film The Game Changers. I watched it, I watched it today. I watched the whole thing from start to finish.

And I have to say before we even start, I like the guy who's in it very much, James Wilks, very nice guy. He's an excellent fighter. He won the Ultimate Fighter.

And I don't think he's a bad person.

Chris Kresser (0:32)

I've only had a little bit of interaction with him just over the past couple of days via email. He seems like a really great guy.

Joe Rogan (0:37)

Yeah, a very good guy.

Chris Kresser (0:38)

Genuine.

Joe Rogan (0:38)

I would, we're going to talk, we're just going to get into it. So let's, what was your thoughts on the film?

And what stood out immediately?

Chris Kresser (0:49)

Okay, so a little bit of context.

You know, I think this film was the best of all the vegan documentaries that have been made. I'll just say that up front. I think it's pretty well done as a film.

Joe Rogan (1:01)

Yes.

Chris Kresser (1:02)

You know, it's got a big budget, pretty good storyline.

Joe Rogan (1:05)

James Cameron, Jackie Chan.

Chris Kresser (1:07)

Lots of celebrities.

Joe Rogan (1:08)

Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Chris Kresser (1:09)

Arnold, you know, it's good graphics. Like it's just a well-made film. And I think it's, especially for someone who doesn't have the background, you know, or science awareness to critique some of the claims, it's going to be really persuasive and compelling. And I've definitely, you know, whenever a film like this comes out, my email inbox just blows up. Like, have you seen this film?

Joe Rogan (1:32)

What?

Chris Kresser (1:32)

Oh my God. You know, like, I'm eating meat. I'm going to kill myself. And it's just like, It's the same as cigarettes. Right. And you know, I was talking to Jamie about it before we started recording. Like I could set my watch to it every year. There's something like this happens and I've got to do a response. I consider it part of my, it's part of my public service.

Joe Rogan (1:52)

Do you think that they're making these films because they believe what they're saying? Or do you think they're making these films because they are trying to convert people to being vegan and they think that distorting reality and just bending things and cherry picking data is acceptable because the long run, the benefits of getting the world to shift over to a vegan diet, it's worth not being completely objective or honest about the actual facts?

Chris Kresser (2:25)

No, I think they believe it. I think people like, I mean, James, for example, I think he's genuinely trying to help people. I think he's looked at the data and he just came to a different conclusion than somebody like me has. And, you know, I mean, this is, there's something called confirmation bias. I'm sure many of your guests have talked about, but it's a basic human tendency where we tend to only look at the data that support our point of view and discount the rest of it.

And it's, you know, even really, really good scientists have a hard time overcoming that. Everybody is guilty of it to some degree, including me.

But I think, yeah, so I think generally the people who are making these films really believe in it. They believe in the power of the vegan diet, you know, from a nutrition perspective, and they also believe that it's gonna help save the world.

Joe Rogan (3:20)

The beginning of it, I thought was so strange. When James talked about being injured and doing all the research that he did, which seems like an extraordinary amount of, what do you say, like a thousand hours of research?

And that the thing that stood out was that the Roman gladiators, at least in this one particular location, according to the analysis of their bones, it appears that they had a vegetarian diet.

Chris Kresser (3:45)

Yeah.

Joe Rogan (3:45)

That they ate a lot of grain.

Chris Kresser (3:47)

That was strange too. I mean, first of all, gladiators were basically prisoners of war criminals. So the diet they're being fed is not-

Joe Rogan (3:54)

Prison food. They're slaves that are forced to fight to the death.

Chris Kresser (3:58)

They had a life expectancy of about two years once they became a gladiator. And it's interesting, they featured Fabian Kahnz, who is the scientist, you remember, who they talked to, and definitely seemed to kind of buy into the plant-based diet idea, or the idea that they were vegetarian by design, or by choice.